10-16-2003, 02:04 PM | #61 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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And no - I don't think you understand us at all. I wish sometimes the Europeans would listen to the way they sound - like Fat Middle claiming that Europe knows more than the US becuase you have older countries. That is a typical arrogant European attitude - but the sad thing is - I have heard it repeatedly by europeans when I was in England, on the French news and by Europeans who visit the US. My father had also sold part of his company years ago to a British printing company - at the time one of the largest in Europe. They had offices all over Europe - so I had A LOT of personal contact with Europeans too. How many personal contacts have any of you had with Americans? And I don't mean the ignorant tourist. I'm talking about - how many Americans have you gone to the movies with - because I have gone to the movies with Europeans, how many people have you had lunch or dinner with? Because I have done both those things with Europes. How many of you have shown an American around your town or city? Because I have. I'm pretty sure I have far more PRSONAL experience with Europeans - than the Europeans on this board have with Americans.
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10-16-2003, 02:08 PM | #62 | |
Elf Lord
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10-16-2003, 02:09 PM | #63 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-16-2003 at 02:11 PM. |
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10-16-2003, 02:17 PM | #64 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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REMINDER- I just want to remind everyone that the flames are not going to even get started here. Keep on topic, and do not flame, or I wiill not hesitate to close this thread.
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10-16-2003, 02:19 PM | #65 |
Quasi Evil
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The height of double standardism in some of these responses is enough to give me altitude sickness. I am an American. And I have never understood why it is certain Americans ALWAYS insist that everything America stands for is right and everything that certain other cultures and countries stand for is wrong or at least not nearly as good. Why is it SO hard to think that theres boloney and pig headed short sighted lunacy on both sides. Why is it always the arabs who are lowly rigid sub human terrorists who don’t understand the Truth that western culture is just the right way of doing things? Why is it ALWAYS my way is right and your way is wrong? Black and white. Ive never been able to understand this simplistic gingoistic attitude toward politics. I think maybe we might have to do a devils advocate exercise here with some people where you are forced to take the opposite side of the argument so you can be enlightened on how things aren’t ever quite so cut and dry…
Personally I thought the gaffer’s post was an excellent post and I in no way felt insulted as an American by anything he said. And JD YOUR response to him embarrassed me quite frankly. Let me ask you a related question though. Do you believe that EVERY policy Israel operates by in dealing with the Palistinians is right on the money and you support 100%? Whats your opinion on how they are carving up whats left on the palestinan land for their own use? Whats your opinion on this wall they are throwing through Palestinian territories were 99.9% of the people JUST want to live in peace and make a living? Do you think by doing what Israel is doing now they are NOT fomenting extreme hate on the part of the palastinians? Is shooting missles into apartment complexes going to truly benefit them in the long run do you think? I guess what Im asking is (while trying to avoid your knee jerking in my direction…) is do you seriously in all honesty think the approach Sharon and Israel is taking now toward the Palastinians is really the best way to go about things? Im really just curious.
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10-16-2003, 02:20 PM | #66 | ||
Quasi Evil
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I get the impression here that some people think oh those arabs/palastinians they know they aren’t right but they just act like fools and idiots just for the heck of it cause they are greedy. But cant we accept that many many MANY palastinians JUST want peace and DON’T want Israelies to be their arch enemies they just want to get along. And MANY MANY would never want innocent lives lost? But that they genuinely feel they have been backed so far in a corner that what recourse do they have? And for those people who made the comments well they hide terrorists in with people so if we kill women and children that’s just the way it goes well what kind of thinking is that? Its brutal murderous butchery either way. On BOTH sides. And BOTH sides genuinely feel the way they feel. One side isn’t kinda sitting back and snickering about how they are getting away with something they know is wrong. They both feel they are right. That’s where the seed of the conflict is. ok all done
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-16-2003, 02:24 PM | #67 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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JD - you've offered the most thoughts / quotes here - and there were a few I wanted to respond to (gotta teach myself how to do the "quoter" thingee!).
First, your statement that religion has caused more wars, death, fanaticism than anything else in history... a common contention, but I beg to differ. World's #1 all-time mass-murderer - Mao Tse Tong, #2 - Stalin - both atheists. #3 would've been Hitler - and if he had a religion, it was probably his own. Napoleon is probably up there somewhere - don't know his religion, but he was a product of an atheist movement. Note though, if you're looking for a little support here - and I do agree with some of what you've said - Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Napoleon were gifts to the world from China, Russia, Germany (via Austria) and France - the UN countries who most opposed the US going after another mass-murderer - Saddam Hussein! (who himself only cloaked his formerly secular government in Islam in order to gain popular and regional support vs US) I also take issue with your statement about the midwest from WAY back on this thread (it was you, JD, wasn't it?). Chicago is certainly a diverse area - and we all mostly get along (except that there are probably SOME idiots everywhere - and we Do get our share). Even many small midwestern towns are diverse - my hometown of Carbondale (pop 26,000) has a very diverse make-up - there's a university there that draws a lot of internationals. It's not the region of our country someone is in - it has more to do with the exposure they've had. Most people are fearful of the unknown - and that's the same if you're in a midwestern small town, somewhere back east or out west - or in a less integrated part of Europe or wherever else. Haven't been to Seymour, Indiana - but even there, your friend could have probably found some good folks who were much more tolerant and accepting. With these times, our country is changing fast - especially the rural parts I think. With modern communications, nowhere is "remote" any longer. I have a lot of hope for that. I had to say that mostly for the benefit of our non-American mooters. Don't want them to think the entire midwest is a bleak place - devoid of anyone who can accept someone who's different. But - don't worry. No offense taken - I'm too old for that. Figure you just may not have had proper midwestern exposure yourself. Last edited by Valandil : 10-16-2003 at 02:43 PM. |
10-16-2003, 02:29 PM | #68 | |
Elf Lord
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But do you really believe that most Palestinians celebrated 9/11??? If so, you are more brainwashed than those drunks in the bar. The rest of what I wrote was intended to refer to everyone, Europeans, Arabs, whatever. The fact that so many of you thought I was having a go at Americans speaks volumes. Methinks the lady doth protest too much... |
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10-16-2003, 02:33 PM | #69 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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A bad comment about America is made, and is immediatly followed by an anti-europe one and it goes on and on and on. I am so very tired of it. Every time the threads start to revolve around this America versus the world-debate. This constant pot-kettle-premise isn't going to solve anything, it'll only bring us deeper and deeper into trenches. Frankly I don't think there is a clear-cut solution to this. But I wish it would just stop.
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10-16-2003, 02:38 PM | #70 | |
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I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-16-2003, 02:42 PM | #72 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-16-2003, 02:47 PM | #73 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I don't have time to respond to all the stuff directed at me right now - I will get to it later. You may disagree with my political feelings and that is YOUR choice - it doesn't make me any more wrong than you nor does it make you more right than me.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-16-2003 at 02:50 PM. |
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10-16-2003, 02:54 PM | #74 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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10-16-2003, 02:55 PM | #75 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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JD is drawing lots of flack here - and appears to be kept quite busy just ANSWERING all the questions directed his way. Let me stand with him just a bit (perhaps not in total agreement - but consider the following).
I've heard this said: "If Palestinians laid down their weapons today, there would be no more fighting. If Israel laid down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel." Agree or disagree? Discuss: Another thought - I really feel bad for Palestinians. Unfortunately, I think (much of) the rest of the Arab / Muslim world loves the status quo. They have the Palestinians there to be a thorn in the side of Israel, as long as they can keep them poor - and keep them hating Israel. The rest of the Arab countries who dislike Israel are more than happy to let the Palestinians do their dirty work - and suffer the consequences for it. Uh - JD - did you see my prior post? At your leisure though, if necessary. |
10-16-2003, 02:57 PM | #76 | |
Elf Lord
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Last edited by The Gaffer : 10-16-2003 at 02:59 PM. |
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10-16-2003, 03:02 PM | #77 | |
Elf Lord
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10-16-2003, 03:07 PM | #78 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Gaffer - you honestly see Israel eradicating Palestinians? I just don't see it. In fact, I think they could have done so - and that it's to their credit that they haven't made the effort.
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10-16-2003, 03:07 PM | #79 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-16-2003, 03:11 PM | #80 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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and Gaffer... if it's the state of Palestine you're refering to, it doesn't exist NOW. Israel is willing to accept a new one - but each time they get close, another bomber goes off in a bus or a cafe. What would YOU do?
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