05-28-2004, 03:17 AM | #61 | ||||
The Dude
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Your christian and atheism paragraphs seem to be an explanation of the source of all morality, and while i may not necassarily believe in this counterposition i think that i could plausably say that Instinct could easily tear down your arguments, who is to say that morality isnt the by-product of some physico-chemical process in our bodies, and that the similar structure of our bodies explains the similarities in our views on morality... i will throw another Philosopher's opinion in who would also counteract your "source of morality". In a discussion between Socrates and Callicles (i forget the book sorry), Callicles prescribes a naturalistic view of Morality, simply that we should observe what happens in nature to find out how we should act (very heavily into the opinion Might is Right), now we all know that morality isnt simply as animals live because our morals are so different, these morals Callicles calls Conventional Morality, and what is the source of conventional morality? he explains that conventional morality was created by the weak members of society to suppress the stronger members of society... Quote:
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, Last edited by Millane : 05-28-2004 at 03:19 AM. |
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05-28-2004, 04:37 AM | #62 | ||
Elven Warrior
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Hemel-who-really-must-read-the-whole-thread-sometime |
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05-28-2004, 01:28 PM | #63 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-28-2004, 07:01 PM | #64 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(visiting in-laws are out shopping - time to Moot for a few minutes!)
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And also, a big point is that I bet Manson didn't start out that way from birth. In the Bible it talks about how when people repeatedly harden their heart by ignoring their conscience and choosing to do what they know is wrong, it gets to a point where the heart is nonresponsive to moral promptings. It's a very dangerous thing to keep doing wrong and think it doesn't hurt you .... More later ... gtg again - thoughts?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-28-2004, 07:11 PM | #65 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Our conscience urges us, as you said, to do right, but too often we choose to do wrong - I think that anyone that is honest would admit that. And tho there are, as you said, "countless examples of humans being horrible and cruel to each other. killing without remorse. brutilizing and raping and destroying and torturing" - yet I claim that they know it's wrong, or at the very least know that they would not like it to happen to someone they love, BECAUSE they know it's wrong. There are a few cases like Manson, but VERY few, IMO, and even Manson prob. wouldn't like what HE did to happen to someone he cared about. But he might be SO far hardened at this point that there's no one he cares about but himself. No time now for the rest of your post, but that's NOT how I would answer it - I don't think free will proves the existence of God...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 05-28-2004 at 07:16 PM. |
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05-28-2004, 07:34 PM | #66 | |
Elven Warrior
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05-28-2004, 08:11 PM | #67 | |
Quasi Evil
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your cause? well im assuming that was your own personal opinion and you werent playing the devils advocate there (excuse the pun).
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-29-2004, 03:41 AM | #68 | |
Elven Warrior
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Bother I haven't a lot of time this morning, but very quickly ....
You've raised an interesting philosophical point actually - whether any argument will ultimately, if we take the greater perspective (from the God's eye view even ), end up as being circular. And, come to think of it, whether that is necessarily a bad thing .... it looks to me, for example, that a Christian perspective as I have outlined does give a valid answer for that particular discourse ... (random thought here ... it is quite neatly self-contained ... is this what you mean by circular? But that is the nature of any discourse, that from within it it will make sense ... ) And most certainly, using the test that you gave - it does play out in the observable data perfectly. A very quick look at your argument. Is that not circular or a particular discourse? Because it seems to me that the answer will always be what it has benefitted us to do. We behave well because it benefits us, we behave badly because it benefits us - heh, we can even do nothing because it benefits us! The difference between the the two, I suppose, is that one accesses something outside the human, the other is centred in the human. But I'd suggest that both are quite logical arguments given basic premises Quote:
Must go - most appropriately, as we're considering being mean and horrible, I have a whole day on battle weaponry to get through .... |
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05-31-2004, 01:51 AM | #69 | ||
The Dude
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As we're in the philosophy thread i will use Socrates as an example, back in his time, it was considered "normal" for older men to have relations with younger boys, breaking "normal" morality of paedophilia (aswell as homosexuality if you want). Quote:
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, |
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06-01-2004, 04:04 AM | #70 |
Hobbit
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Rian. I've read all of Nietzsche's philosophical work and i can think of a couple specific thoughts of his that stay with me.
"Pity is the virtue of prostitutes" A fairly venomous accusation since most feel pity at times i assume. What Fred says is that pity is nothing more than a weak persons only prospect at power. For if one gives pity and another accepts the pity the acceptor comes under the givers power. He goes on to roll that into a fairly heated critique of the RC church since pity is very apparent in Jesus's teachings. Do i agree with this quote?... sometimes. "The strongest and most evil spirits have so far done the most to advance humanity" If one takes this point of view the hitlers of history are the greatest men because they are the ones that push us to the greatest achievement. |
06-01-2004, 04:47 AM | #71 | |||
The Dude
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06-02-2004, 02:35 AM | #72 |
Hobbit
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"God is dead"~fn
Hi Millane. When i started reading Fred i was filled with awe and disgust simultaneously. His apparent disregard of female quality is definitely not shared by myself. I personally prefer a more chivalrous approach but thats just me. It's excellent that you are starting with the gay science because it's low on the cynicism and high on the inspiration. I started with the antichrist and i confess it was quite a shock to this lad with roots in Roman Catholicism. I'd reccomend Also sprach Zarathrustra next... or The case of wagner/birth of tragedy. And yes, i think his use of the word "prostitutes" is very indicative of his mindset toward women. He could have just sa easily used some masculine equivalent right? |
06-03-2004, 03:48 PM | #73 | |
Quasi Evil
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Ok my apologies ahead of time to all my republican friends but I found this too funny to pass up. And they mention quite a few philosophers so…
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-03-2004, 04:04 PM | #74 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-03-2004, 04:08 PM | #75 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And with apologies to my liberal friends, I'll pass on something that I heard about talk radio and why there's so many conservative shows and so few liberal. The guy that said this pointed out that fact, and then said that once a liberal guy starts a radio show he's actually forced to think thru and try to defend his positions, then sees it's impossible because they don't make any sense, and then he becomes a conservative!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-10-2005, 10:26 PM | #76 |
"The Bomb"
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*bump* Tada! The thread that launched me into my current location. (EDIT: "Deep Thought")
Since last year we've gotten a lot of new mooters, including a few intersting ones , and a couple have left apparently , plus people have changed. There are new things to be said. Personally, I still hold the same beliefs that I talked about here (slight differences but let's not go too deep immediately), but have thought of a way to summarize them: beauty is appreciation. Anyone else want to post their thoughts? I suppose it's hard to begin, but everything is relevant to philosophy, so say anything at all. I don't want this thread to die again. How was this allowed to sink to the bottom anyway? (That's a rhetorical question. Or is it? ) It's got me reminiscing now. I lost track of some mooters. Now I miss GM and Sminty; and Janny, I can't believe how long I thought you had become inactive, when really the two of us were online just as often as the other, never in same thread at the same time. I even forgot that we're nearly the same age. That's incredible! You're alive!
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 03-26-2006 at 07:19 PM. |
09-10-2005, 10:36 PM | #77 |
of the House of Fëanor
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I'm so glad you bumped this thread, Bombadillo - you know, I am positive I searched around for a philosophy thread a couple times, once when I first joined the moot and another time, not too long ago, but for some reason I don't recall having found anything at all. I'm here! Although I've been mooting off and on literally all day long, so I'm kind of drained, but I'll definitely help you revive this thread, for SURE, as long as it does NOT turn into another friggin' theology thread, know what I mean?
EDIT: psychic abilities??? you're freakin' me out man, what a trip...
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09-10-2005, 10:41 PM | #78 | |
"The Bomb"
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You must have noticed this just seconds after I bumped it. Right after I posted, I closed out of a couple windows, then checked "who's online" and you were already replying. I thought you must have seen me in "who's online" reading this thread, but since I'm invisible, you thought it was a guest, and you decided to bump the thread. I thought, wow it would freak her out if we bumped the same year-old thread in a couple of cross-posts, and I predicted her post coming. Shucks. Aw, man, that would've been awesome. That's wierd that it didn't show up in your search. Maybe our search tool only displays what's recent. I totally forgot about this, and fiddling with my control panel, found out I subscribed to it a long time ago. EDIT: Yeah, I'm tired too. I'm mountain biking all day tomorrow, and if I don't sleep soon, I'll surely die on the mountain. See y'all Monday!
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 09-10-2005 at 11:16 PM. |
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09-10-2005, 10:52 PM | #79 |
of the House of Fëanor
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I'm glad you did, anyway. You'll see me in this thread now more often than not - at this particular moment, however, I'm even yawning I'm so tired. I did an awful lot of posting today, mainly in my RPG (the Nazguls etcetera RPG) and now I'm even typing slow.
p.s. the meaning of life is that life has no meaning - paraphrasing Joseph Cambell...
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09-10-2005, 11:47 PM | #80 |
Elf Lord
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How is meaninglessness meaningful?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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