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10-08-2004, 02:52 PM | #61 | |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I've been told it's all in my head
Posts: 916
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Los Gaseous
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Excellent point. There could be many different types of beings outside of ourselves, or inside!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps the only thing standing in the way of complete Earth-hostile-takeover is the host body drinking beer!!!! I choose to believe this is likely. Then again, I choose to fart in public and this has proven to be a "social" retreat of some sorts........I"M ONLY KIDDING!!!! Los Gaseous......I fart alone.......
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Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! |
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10-08-2004, 03:04 PM | #62 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
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Ah, I see, there hasn't been a distinction made here between reality and existance. Reality = conceptual; Existance = factual. What do you think?
Now about the color orange: pigment exists, and when light shines on things of a certain pigment, all colors save one are absorbed (this is about as scientific as I get --forgive my vocabulary). The color is there whether it is perceived or not. Just because my eyes happen to see it doesn't mean it isn't there! (Say what?) Anyway, for all I know there might be other properties that I can't perceive, and I fully accept the possibility that they may exist. It seems we have two camps, the realists and non-realists. The Somethings and the Nothings. |
10-08-2004, 04:08 PM | #63 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
Posts: 2,389
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But how do we come to the knowledge of facts? Through our perceptions. THus, we are still perceving the things we see as factual. So, in that case, existance is still conceptual.
And pigment looks different to different creatures, so that argument doesn't really stand. Color is not a property of an object, it's only there because of the perception. And anyway...how can we know that what orange looks like to me is the same as what orange looks like to you?
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 10-08-2004 at 04:10 PM. |
10-08-2004, 04:18 PM | #64 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Reality is all subjective anyway. ::shrug::
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
10-08-2004, 05:46 PM | #65 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
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But I don't see how you can argue the fact that we exist. We are here in a real physical place. The sun is a REAL thing. It existed before any humans. It gave off light and for those who believe in evolution, animals developed eyes because of the light given off by the sun. It's not the other way around. Light DOES exist. Light is made up of color. It's not us "making up" light, it's that our eyes that allow us to see the colors that are important for us to see. But even if no animals had ever existed, the sun would still be giving off light, and the light would still be made the same way. Just because no living thing was experiencing it doesn't mean it wasn't there. It was! We have to exist to see it, label it, talk about it, and find out more about it, but none of those things is a prerequisite for existance, right?
Existance isn't a concept, it's pure fact. Knowing it is a fact has nothing to do with it, IMO. BTW, I do understand what you mean by the concept of orange being subjective. Maybe we're just talking about two different things. |
10-08-2004, 06:41 PM | #66 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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*cheers for azalea* Well said!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-08-2004, 07:13 PM | #67 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-08-2004, 07:19 PM | #68 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
*needs to go take a long walk...* Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-08-2004, 10:19 PM | #69 | ||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-09-2004, 12:58 AM | #70 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Yes, slipped! Maybe you didn't mean to say it, but your wording sure looked like you assumed people were somehow "more specialer" than other beings! You fixed it after Val noticed it
Oh IRex, c'mon, you know you guys get cheered more often than my side does! So you slippped and then fixed it - so what? Your fix is noted, and I hope you can take a little ribbing. And I'll cheer for you Rah rah for IRex! Go Rexy!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-09-2004, 10:56 AM | #71 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden
Posts: 9,481
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Here's a couple of truths.
Light cannot be seen when there is nothing to reflect it. Sound cannot be heard when there is nothing to receive it. |
10-10-2004, 05:53 PM | #72 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
Posts: 2,389
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Obviously light existed before humans. Brightness, however, did not. Brightness is a sensation created by the brain.
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
10-10-2004, 08:13 PM | #73 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Light has been existent since the conditions in the big bang stopped being opaque to light transmission in the visible range (witness the Hubble Space Telescope Data) and electromagnetic wavelengths other than light likewise (witness Chandra X-ray Observatory and the Spitzer Infrared Observatory). In all the billions of years of travel these electromagnetic waves have existed. So whether seen or not depends on the receptor. (I love to quibble so I will note that reflected light is in fact not seen or received because it is reflected .) And if you have read SCIENCE NEWS lately or ASTRONOMY or SKY&TELESCOPE, you will have seen major summaries or articles on the existence of sound waves since the big bang conditions permitted! Same set of caveats, too! Now, if you had meant that unobserved phenomena seem to be nonexistent until appropriate receptors detect them, I agree. But even the great observatories are merely extensions of human detectors (the senses) into realms we normally cannot sense without aids. Sometimes those detections are attributed to incorrect ideas. For instance, the cosmic background microwave radiation was thought to be due to bird poop on the antenna until the correct realization was achieved. Which leads me to my final observation, . . . . there's always something to be discovered under the various poops of life !!!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 10-10-2004 at 08:14 PM. |
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10-11-2004, 09:13 AM | #74 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden
Posts: 9,481
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Yes, of course, light and sound can be detected with machinery but not by human eyes and ears alone if the light is not reflected from something and the sound isn't in the appropriate range of reception.
Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 10-11-2004 at 09:14 AM. |
10-11-2004, 09:14 AM | #75 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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i think light is a figment of my imagination, or maybe not
i know maniacal-predatory-rabbits are a figment of my imagination, or they were last time I checked! |
10-11-2004, 10:35 AM | #76 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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LCoU,
Those rabbits exist. I know I saw one on Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It even had light and Sound!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-12-2004, 05:31 AM | #77 | |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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BTW, u can call me chrys, everyone else does |
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12-28-2004, 02:33 PM | #78 |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I've been told it's all in my head
Posts: 916
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While I can wax about the depth of the "why" anything exist, I attribute the great quote, "eh, why not?" to Brock, a young dairy farmer from upper NY.
While this is a reduntant thread with "why you believe what you believe" just a few pixels away, you have to admit it has great title....thanks DA! Here's a thought...what if our universe was created as sort of "super-computer to test theories and such....or it was built more as a 'machine' to ackomplish some task(s), continual or otherwise. Exploring the otherwise, our universe might have been created, used (like a tool), and left to it's own to follow it's pertaining laws and flows. Or perhaps mankind is being grown (as a species with improving technology) not unlike an apple tree. Just having fun, here.
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Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! |