09-25-2002, 03:10 PM | #61 |
Dúnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
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Yes RÃ*an, I graduated in June 1976. I will have to get in touch with them and get the sites they used to learn it.
My Tengwar is coming along, but its been difficult to actually devote time to it with so much needing to be done. I figure when I'm snowed in for the three months of Winter i can study and practice it then.
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"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
09-25-2002, 03:25 PM | #62 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3
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tengwar
hi i am new here and was wondering if there was a way to learn to read, write, and speak elvish. i think it would be really cool to be able to strike up a conversation like that.
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09-25-2002, 04:54 PM | #63 |
Elven Maiden
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,309
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welcome, Mornië Tulkieldë. i am not an expert but maybe this will help: you can learn a couple different elvish languages. quenya (as far as i know) is the most complete. i am learning it myself actually. you can also read and write in the tengwar. that is the topic of this lovely thread. any of this stuff can be found on the internet and the tengwar is in the appendix, although many internet sights are easier to understand, in my opinion. nice to meet you Mornië Tulkieldë. elen sila lumenn' omentielvo. (too lazy to find accents)
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09-25-2002, 05:33 PM | #64 |
Padawan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Barony of Carolingia
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Replying to RÃ*an's post awhile ago: I can't do the bloody accents, etc either, it's not just you. Copy and paste, copy and paste. The 'h' symbol always makes me think of the chinese word for "big" (I had to take 4 years of Mandarin in elementary school. I hated it then, mostly because I couldn't get the knack of it.)
Just printed out both pages to which you posted links; plus the calligraphy page from the "Amanye Tenceli" page. Shall begin learning it tomorrow in my study, once I finish my Latin homework! "Oh wheeeere is my hairbrush?" I loved that song! Go Larry and Bob! VeggieTales = Awesome. It's been forever since I last watched VeggieTales....maybe 5 years? Wow... Memories...
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There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!! |
09-25-2002, 07:57 PM | #65 |
Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In a house
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what;s the s curl? also, how do you do plural and posessive?
-~*Smintz*~- |
09-25-2002, 08:51 PM | #66 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Hello, Mornië Tulkieldë, and welcome!
As katya said, this is about writing English (or whatever your native language is) using the elvish Tengwar character set, which can be adapted to fit any language. IMO, it's much more do-able than learning Quenya or Sindarin, but still gives you a lovely Middle Earth feeling. Check out the two links that I listed early in the thread, and check back if you have more questions - I'll try to help you out.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-25-2002, 08:56 PM | #67 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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TC - isn't that infuriating??!! I get tired of copy and paste, so I haven't been doing it lately. *sigh*
4 years of Mandarin - wow! and in elementary school - that's a great place to take a language, when you're young and the new-language-part of your brain works better. Have you retained much of it? *runs to print out calligraphy page* ooh, I forgot about that page! Glad you mentioned it. And I like what they say - it's "unusually well suited for calligraphic freedom" - since you just have to have the stem and the bow recognizable. It's fun to try different looks! Good luck learning - keep us posted here
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-25-2002, 09:07 PM | #68 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Sminty (or do you prefer Smintz, as in your sig?) - look on the first link I gave, just under the big chart. The paragraph starting "The sound values of the tengwar can be modified by diacritics called tehtar." , then it shows examples of doubling a consonant (the first two), adding a nasal in the same column (the second 2 examples, nt and ng), then the last 2 examples are letters with a s-curl - ts and gs. But those curls are pretty boring - the better example is from "Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien" - letter number 118, the second writing example - the word "Christmas" is nice, he wrote the 'm', then a big s-curl, then the vowel mark for 'a' above the s-curl, so it reads 'mas'. My favorite one is at the end of the word 'explanations' (which he spells phonetically) - a 'n' with a big s-curl doubling back on itself, with a 'o' vowel mark over it, giving 'ons'. (This is so hard to type out - try to get to the bookstore and take a look at letter 118 )
I just put an 's' at the end to show possessive or plural, it's pretty evident by the context. Sometimes I write out words I would otherwise use contractions for, like "I am" instead of "I'm", but sometimes I just write "Im" - again, the context makes it pretty clear, and there is no word "Im", so it must mean "I'm". I wonder if other languages have contractions? Oh, yes, of course they do - I know Spanish does, at least, but they don't use the apostrophe mark.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-26-2002, 03:50 PM | #69 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3
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thanks, RÃ*an and katya, for the help. i downloaded a file that contained characters in Quenya Tengwar. but i can't figure out how to get it into wordpad or any programs like that so that i can use the file. any suggestions there?
thanks again. i will definately check out the site you posted, RÃ*an. maybe there will be something i can download there. if i think of other questions i will let you know. |
09-26-2002, 07:04 PM | #70 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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You might want to check out both links, Mornië Tulkieldë - I found that by putting info from the two sites together I was able to get really good English-mode Tengwar notes.
I think I'll try to scan my "crib sheet" and the Letter #118 and attach it as a .bmp file for anyone to look at, if they want to.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 09-26-2002 at 07:06 PM. |
09-27-2002, 12:56 AM | #71 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OK, here's my "cheat sheet" - the paper I carried around and studied while in line at the grocery store, etc., if anyone is interested. At least we can stare at the same thing while talking about English-mode Tengwar. I added the numbers above the characters, as in RoTK appendix, so we can also say Character #5, or something like that, instead of "the double p-looking thingie". Now let me see if I can figure out attachments....
p.s. - The stuff at the bottom is just a note for you guys to read. I'll post a translation tomorrow, "spoiler-ed" out, if you want to check it out. Remember, it is very phonetic, and JRR wrote the same words different ways - it's very individual, but other Tengwar readers should be able to make it out. Good luck!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-27-2002, 01:11 AM | #72 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Darn file was too big - well, I don't quite know how to keep it readable and shrink it down. Any suggestions? Or just forget it, and we'll refer to character numbers?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-27-2002, 07:39 PM | #73 |
Padawan
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Not a clue - I've been having difficulties with vowels; for example, how would one write the word "guides"? Would you go by spelling or by pronunciation?
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There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!! |
09-27-2002, 08:06 PM | #74 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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It's supposed to go by how the word sounds, but Tolkien went both ways himself. I would probably spell this one out, because it's pretty unusual. So I would do "g" (#8), then the "u" vowel mark over a short vowel carrier, then the "i" vowel mark over a "d" character (#5) with the silent "e" dot underneath the "d" character (because the ending "e" is not pronounced). But again, it's a matter of personal style.
I also could do "g", then an "i" mark over a long carrier, then a "d". Also, "g", then "i" mark over a "d" with a silent "e" dot under the "d". Although I can think of 3 ways to do it, really anyone that reads Tengwar would be able to get the meaning. Whoops - just checked your post again - forgot about the plural. I would either put an s-curl off the d, or use an s at the end, or even a z (which is really more correct, sound-wise). Probably the s-curl, though, because I like it Was all this clear as mud? Hey, maybe I'll try to write it out and scan it, since it's only one word. *stay tuned...*
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-27-2002, 08:18 PM | #75 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OK, it's only 3k, so I'll attach it. You picked a great example for a word that can be written many ways! English is a strange language. But most words are a lot more straightforward than this one. Looking at them, I would probably go with the fourth one: g, u over short carrier, i over d with silent-e dot beneath with s-curl hanging off d. (a lot easier to DO than to TYPE!) Can you read the attachment?
p.s. - I typically don't use the long carrier because I think it's not very nice looking. Hey, I wrote it 5 ways in the attachment, and I could do a few more (put s at the end, for example). Which do you like?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 09-27-2002 at 08:20 PM. |
09-27-2002, 09:04 PM | #76 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OK, TC - here's a quick note. See how you do! Several words are very sound-spelled. Good luck!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-27-2002, 09:48 PM | #77 |
Padawan
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Thank you so much! I love your s-curls! Ok, to translate that attachment:
"Greetings, TinuvielChild. I hope your Tengwar is coming along well. Isn't it fun? Good luck. -Rian" Yay!!!!! I can read Tengwar! I'll post my transcription of something most of you people ought to know, although I haven't quite gotten the trick of punctuation. And my vowels are kind of screwed up, because I just started trying to figure this out yesterday. Oh well.
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There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!! |
09-27-2002, 10:08 PM | #78 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Perfect! Great job!! Fun, isn't it? Did you have any trouble with the phonetic-sounding words, or the "isnt" contraction without the apostrophe?
I'll do something else, this time with a calligraphy pen. Can't wait for yours!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-27-2002, 10:21 PM | #79 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OK, try this one. One of the characters you may not recognize, because I write it a little differently than the chart, and there is a new punctuation mark. Good luck!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-27-2002, 10:36 PM | #80 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And here is Tolkien's letter # 118 - unfortunately, it didn't come out very well, it's pretty small. He uses the upward s's. Let me know if you want the translation, it's probably pretty hard to make out without some help.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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