07-23-2005, 04:48 AM | #61 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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So violent crime has increased but people don't know about it? Sorry that's way too sophisticated thinking for me.
Friends on the M.P. tell me different.
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07-23-2005, 07:52 AM | #62 |
Quasi Evil
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Well thats what happens when you post a blog. You get bad facts. The truth is that many many people attempted to stop the men who were running away once they realized what the heck was going on. There are eye witness accounts of men in suits trying to chase them down. Even one witness who said he saw an old man attempt to "rugby tackle" one of the suspects. So this idea that they just ran like frightened mice and refused to do anything while the bombers leisurely strolled away is just internet mythology being created as we speak.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
07-23-2005, 08:29 AM | #63 | |
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07-23-2005, 12:10 PM | #64 |
Elf Lord
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Shades of "Clockwork Orange" - the accents have changed to protect the storyline....! By the by, IR, the news report was BBC and the comments were blog exemplars. I trust you can distinguish the two as most folks can. It is true that the story may change. Check the BBC for that. Keep us updated.
As for the creation of internet mythology, I am not so sure. This many eyewitnesses do not make the Matthew-Sheppard-story-like-manipulation quite so simple, IMHO. But I'm sure that the allegations of certain policies is the creation of "anti-cultural bias" mythologies deliberately sought by certain cultural groups. 'Course, I do believe that the english meaning of "Stop, Police" is the same across the pond. Perhaps the chap should've, y'know?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
07-23-2005, 06:25 PM | #65 | |
Lady of Letters
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I guess these bloggers are what you might call armchair anti-terrorists - they talk big on the other side of the pond, but stick them in a crowded tube train, where everyone's known for a fortnight that they could be seconds from death, and see how brave they look then.
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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07-25-2005, 04:16 AM | #66 | |
Elf Lord
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(The British Crime Survey is a more reliable indicator of crime levels because it can address unreported crimes. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html) Further, Phillip is clearly an idiot. Imagine if I had posted after 9/11 how Americans were all cowards because they let their flights 11/175/77 get hijacked? I would gladly separate him from his teeth. However, the most worrying thing here is the rampant Islamophobia in that post. It is the intention of these bombers to divide our countries along religious lines and you are playing their game. If you were actually reading what Muslims are saying instead of trolling then you would know that Muslim leaders are calling for more action within their community to root out these individuals. Religion has long found a role as a willing apologist for violence. Christianity is no exception. Indeed, it probably has the highest body count. Last edited by The Gaffer : 07-25-2005 at 04:19 AM. |
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07-25-2005, 10:51 AM | #67 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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to repeat:
Osama Bin Laden calling for a polarised world -- Muslims versus the West -- was telecast on Al-Jazeera on Saturday November 3, 2001. That's a pretty straight forward aim and one to take up arms against....or learn Arabic.
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07-25-2005, 11:07 AM | #68 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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there are extremist groups from just about every religion on the planet that say things just as inflammatory... by implying that osama represents all muslims, or even a vast majority, you give him a level of credibility he does not deserve
the muslim religion is his tool, not his belief
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07-25-2005, 11:28 AM | #69 | |
Elf Lord
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07-25-2005, 01:45 PM | #70 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...no, I am pointing out that he as a "leader" of insurrection, rebellion and terror, has called for this to happen and all those under him, quasi-under him or wannabe's are doing what he wants.
I'm not doing anything except to remind some here that is wasn't US that called for this. |
07-25-2005, 02:09 PM | #71 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-25-2005, 02:18 PM | #72 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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07-25-2005, 02:20 PM | #73 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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There are people who think that London is in England. There are people who think that the Big Bang occurred. There are people who think Elvis is alive. There are people who think aliens exist. There are people who think William Wallace existed. There are people who think King Arthur was an actual person. All of these things are claims to truth and can be evaluated to varying degrees, depending upon various things such as how long ago they were purported to take place. Some of these things are more important to evaluate and consider than others. Quote:
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(and I think evolution should be taught in schools. It's certainly a possibility, altho rather a remote one, IMHO, and mainly held because of strong personal biases against the other option.)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 07-25-2005 at 02:28 PM. |
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07-25-2005, 02:26 PM | #74 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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As far as your statement, I agree that "most individuals of the muslim faith do not condone the slaughter of innocents for any reason" - the tricky part is their definition of "innocents" ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-25-2005, 02:50 PM | #75 | |
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i heard an interview with one british muslim woman who sincerely believed 9/11 was one big ploy by western civilization to frame muslims... is she evil or does she just misunderstand the situation? and, if not evil, what has lead her to this misunderstanding? can it be placed solely upon radical muslim fanatics, or can part of the misunderstanding be a result of actual issues she has to deal with as a muslim in a western nation? the point? when you stop talking about individuals and start to categorize by things like race, religious beliefs and national identities, you lose sight of the individual and they become an "american", "catholic", "arab" or "muslim"... and, in time, any individual that falls into one of those categories, created and then defined based on a small minority, has their behavior automatically sterotyped as i said earlier in this thread (or one it was split from)... the fact alone that there are thousands of devout muslims living perfectly normal, peaceable and happy lives is enough to show that a particular religious belief, in and of itself, has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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07-25-2005, 03:13 PM | #76 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But sometimes categorization is a necessary evil ... I'm sure there were many nice men in Hitler's army, and some that didn't agree with his policies, but realistically, you can't call a cease fire and go interview people, and then go back and only shoot at the ones that think Hitler was right
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
07-25-2005, 03:46 PM | #77 | |
Elf Lord
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I posted the news article and blog responses so you coud see what we were being told and the variety of responses to it. Apparently this was not patently obvious. *shrugs* I thought some of the responses were a bit off and over the top. But when the news reports are stated to be thus-and-so, without recording the valorous acts, you can see why people not well read nor knowing any Brits (personally or on-line) might get a false impression. My sole purpose was illustrate what we were hearing and the responses. I am very gratified to hear that the valorous acts were there. I knew it in my bones, but then I've read CSL and JRRT and JKR. Many haven't!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 07-25-2005 at 03:47 PM. |
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07-25-2005, 03:54 PM | #78 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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it's human nature to react that way... we're a tribal animal who trusts and relates best to others who share the most in common with ourselves, be it beliefs or geographic proximity... but i think it's important to fight those tendencies on a regular basis
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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07-25-2005, 04:23 PM | #79 | |
Lady of Letters
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If you want to post the American news reports from which you or these posters, whoever they are, obtained their false information, that would be interesting. The BBC and all British reports give a completely different story.
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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07-25-2005, 06:52 PM | #80 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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