Faith Healings

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
But can you see the concept in a smaller way - if, for example, you had a friend who thought "all whites are terrible people who only care about taking advantage of others!" and then that person got into a car accident and had some painful injuries, and the bystanders who were white assisted him at the risk of injury to themselves, and the ambulance people who were white said "hey, be sure to pick up his wallet and give it to him- I saw it lying on the pavement over there!", and the doctors and nurses who were white were compasionate and helpful, and your friend learned that some whites ARE kind and good - but he would never had really learned this lesson unless he went through pain.

Sort of a tangent on this...Not only can pain and suffering be a good lesson or "test" to those experiencing it, but it can "bring out the best" in others. It grants a time for other people to show their mercy and compassion as caregivers.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Lalaith_Elf
From that example, yes I can understand that that pain was a good thing. And yes it helps me understand why you like or at least don't mind having your illness, but I still think that there is no need to suffer that much.

I hate having this illness. I HATE it!!

But I love and trust God, and realize that if I need this particular illness to help me learn some difficult but important lessons, then I am willing to submit to having it for this short time that I'm here on earth, and try to learn whatever I can. (Just like a child might hate having their measles shot, but because they love and trust their parents, they submit to it.)

Might go and buy a Bible today....

Go for it!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Sort of a tangent on this...Not only can pain and suffering be a good lesson or "test" to those experiencing it, but it can "bring out the best" in others. It grants a time for other people to show their mercy and compassion as caregivers.

Excellent point, Mercutio.


and Millane - another angle on the "don't tell" thing - I think that the people that Jesus healed and asked them to not tell would have a very high motivation to respect His wishes. After all, being cured of leprosy is a bit different from being given some candy or being told to not hit a paper mache pig. I think a person healed from leprosy would have a great motivation, based on profound gratitude, to respect Jesus' wishes to not tell who did the healing (which was because it wasn't His time to die yet).

[Tessar]

Also the fact that Mill-what's-it planned a nasty surprise, while Jesus did something kind and caring.

Lief: I agree that the 'bopping' might just be part of it, but if Jesus had wanted, don't you think he could've done it any way he pleased? He could've told them to hop up and down on one leg chanting a hymn, and it would've worked. It's not the sign that's important, it's the imparting of God's Grace.

Then of course, why did I suggest the Sign of the Cross? Because it's a 'sign' of respect and faith, where as bopping is most definitely not .

Rian: *moot hug* You’ll be in my prayers sweety, I had no idea you had an illness.

[Lalaith_Elf]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I hate having this illness. I HATE it!!

Don't I know the feeling.

But I love and trust God, and realize that if I need this particular illness to help me learn some difficult but important lessons, then I am willing to submit to having it for this short time that I'm here on earth, and try to learn whatever I can. (Just like a child might hate having their measles shot, but because they love and trust their parents, they submit to it.)

Well, I certainly am wiser now. And it is hopefully starting to make sense (at last!), I still don't agree with it, but then I don't have to. And to probably contradict myself, when I get depressed or angry or sad (etc), I may choose (and I do), to cause myself pain. Yes people thinks it's sick and 'not nice' and yes perhaps it is. But then through that pain I'm controlling and calming myself. And yes in a way I supose I learn. I learn the true meaning of pain everytime. But then I cannot compare it to my illness or why I have that illness. I still think that it's unfair that people have to go through life like that and in pain. I don't see why it's necessary for these illnesses, and not being able to control it. In my view I'd much rather cause myself pain quite willingly than have it forced upon me.

Go for it!

I spent my money on clothes and coffee instead...

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Tessar
Lief: I agree that the 'bopping' might just be part of it, but if Jesus had wanted, don't you think he could've done it any way he pleased? He could've told them to hop up and down on one leg chanting a hymn, and it would've worked. It's not the sign that's important, it's the imparting of God's Grace.

Then of course, why did I suggest the Sign of the Cross? Because it's a 'sign' of respect and faith, where as bopping is most definitely not .

I'm not sure what the purpose of your second paragraph is. I don't think I understand what your point is, really.

The first paragraph I do agree with.

[Tessar]

The reason that second paragraph is there, is simply to ward off the 'But you said "why not the Sign of the Cross instead"! What makes that so much better than bopping' that I thought might come .

And my point?

My point is that you seemed, although perhaps I was completely mistaken, to be saying that the bopping was needed since Jesus used what might be called 'outlandish' ways. I don't think any bopping out outlandish ways are required at all. It would seem you and I have completely misunderstood each other though.

[Lief Erikson]

Okay. Well . . . I still think that any of those physical signs would work. Physical signs also, I believe, can increase the power of a prayer's effectiveness. For example, when people lay on the hands while making a prayer, it generally is far more powerful. The Holy Spirit is given often by the laying on of the hands. Speaking prayers out loud often makes them stronger than praying them. Fasting also makes for more potent prayers. Other signs or ways of doing it also can make the action more effective. I don't know why it is, but I am certain that it is that way. It's not that this is a limitation of God's power; it's simply the way I observe from Scripture and slightly from experience too, that he operates.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Tessar
Rian: *moot hug* You’ll be in my prayers sweety, I had no idea you had an illness. [/B]

thanks so much for your kindness and the moot hug! It made me feel very nice

[Rían]

Originally posted by Lalaith_Elf
Don't I know the feeling.

*moothug*

I spent my money on clothes and coffee instead...

LOL! Sounds fun! What type of clothes? Coffee smells good, but I can't drink it - it gives me a stomach ache. I prefer tea - I got some chai tea from Starbucks tonight - bit of a rough day, pain-wise. Good stuff!

(and there are on-line Bibles, too - try 'em out! But nothing beats a good, REAL book in your hands - I'm sure you could pick up one real cheap at a used bookstore - go for it! I recommend the New International Version or the New American Standard Version translations, btw. The King James version is sometimes confusing, because of the archaic language. Language, as Tolkien knew, fluctuates and changes - I love his description of how the various Elven languages changed over time, esp. in "The Shibboleth of Feanor" in Morgoth's Ring (volume 10 of History of MIddle Earth)

[Lalaith_Elf]

:moothug: Thanks.

Um, a couple of black top things. Hard to describe, but ones velverty and the other is black lace. And I love coffee. I drink far too much of it!

I may just have to check out those online Bible's.

[Rían]

Cool - I like black tops with blue jeans, esp.

[Lalaith_Elf]

I generally wear black with black.

[Tessar]

I might like to wear black and black just for the 'cool' factor of it but I'm so thin anyways that I look terrible.

I just love my cargo pants to DEATH! They're 'jeans fitting' around the waist and hips but then have 'straight' cut legs. I actually look decently filled out when I wear them.

*cough* sorry, back on topic.

I have to agree, even if you don't buy the bible for the religion part, at least get it for the history! There's a lot of stuff in there that happened, and has shown to be real, that's just amazing.

[Lalaith_Elf]

I'm guessing that since most people have been trying to pursuade me to buy a Bible, I should buy a Bible. I supose it would also come in handy for my Literature course.....