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11-27-2007, 07:06 PM | #61 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Confusion Lane, on the back of a dragon, or on horseback.
Posts: 186
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Why are all homeschoolers pretty well almost always either TOTAL religious Freaks or Really smart?
I know... I have good sources.
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Do not follow where the path may lead, but goes instead where there is no path and leave a trail. -Emerson Edgar Alan Poe and Oscar Wilde rock. They are actually better than rocks. Beautiful Soup and A Tomato Ate My Sister are the most educational and intellectual songs ever created, challenging the scholarly power of the great philosophers. On TB's sig, Don't worry about the world ending today, tomorrow, or next week, just worry about it ending now. |
11-27-2007, 11:39 PM | #62 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
But maybe the problem is more solvable as "People are a mystery, and it's particularly noticeable when you're young, and really trying to establish communication with them." (((((HUGS)))))
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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11-28-2007, 12:44 AM | #63 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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That means: a) The parents hold very strong religious beliefs that they feel may be undermined by the diverse worldviews that are bound to come up in the public school system, via peers and teachers. or b) The parents are very smart themselves, and pass that along to their children. It's classic self-selection. Homeschooling, in and of itself does not make kids smarter or more religiously dedicated. There are plenty of geniuses and religious leaders that went to public school, they just had parents that cared enough to not let their education stop with public school alone. No child who is homeschooled has a parent that does not care about their child's education, or they would not have choosen home schooling in the first place. Basically, the problem is not how you get your education, but whether parents are concerned enough to take and active part in it, via homeschooling or by supplementing public education. Unfortunately, many parents do not care to. That's not to say that they don't care about their children. They simple don't know how to help educate them. That's why public school must exist.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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11-28-2007, 02:01 AM | #64 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: College!
Posts: 1,976
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Ron Paul '08! Now I just need to register...
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
11-28-2007, 09:14 AM | #65 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
Overly pedantic and complicated, my friend. I'd have expected you to mention sampling error, at the very least. According to the department of education, in 2003 there were 1.1 million homeschooled students in the US. It's worth mentioning that homeschool activists believe that number is low. How many of them do you suppose elven dragonrider has met? Not even one percent, would be my guess, because that would be over 10,000 people. Are you suggesting that all those (or even a significant percentage of them) are, as in Lake Woebegone, above average? And, since I've already pointed out that only 30% are homeschooling "to provide religious or moral instruction", the "religious zeal self-selection" argument collapses, too. I'd say a small sample size, coupled with observers bias, was the likely cause of her conclusion. Stereotypes about homeschooling (including the attractive one that homeschoolers are somehow more concerned than average about their childrens' education) just don't reflect the diversity of the population. Some have essentially independent schools (rather like Amish plain schools) while some "home-based learning" is overseen by public schools and follows their curriculum. Some meet in co-ops for lessons and some completely unschool. Some use "classical curriculum', featuring the study of Latin, and some emphasize the study of African American or other non-European culture. They homeschool because their child has special needs, or because the parents travel with work (like the Edwards family, this year.) Or for a million other reasons. You know I'll pick on you, when you keep making these generalizations, right?
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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11-28-2007, 01:53 PM | #66 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
By definition, a child who is homeschooled has both of those factors, unless they are being homeschooled for purely religious reasons. In which case it is possible, though certainly not definite, that they are not actually getting as good of an education as they could, but they still have the parental involvement aspect. By comparison, those that go to public school are getting educated, but they may or may not have the parental involvement. So, looking at it in general terms, it's to be expected that when compared with the rest of the population "in general terms", homeschoolers tend to be either generally more religious, generally better educated, or both. This does not mean that there are not exceptions, but I would not be surprised if these assumptions held true in a general way. Generalizations are fine. The only become problematic when they turn into stereotypes (i.e. something is true for a majority of the population and thus must be true for all the population). Quote:
If a child is homeschooled in a religious way, it is highly likely that they will appear religious.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-22-2007, 08:04 AM | #67 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Excellent post sisterandcousinandaunt
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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12-24-2007, 03:33 AM | #68 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Trust me on this, register to vote the very first moment that you can! Nothing's worse than having chosen a candidate and not being able to vote. (Happened to me. Sucks.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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12-24-2007, 11:32 PM | #69 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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So what's the option for the children of parents who don't care? Or parents who do care but aren't all that educated themselves?
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
12-24-2007, 11:52 PM | #70 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Thats simple brownjenkins
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In modern society you don't need government to solve these problems, the results would be self evident. People will see the importance of schooling their children and make it a point to educate them. This idea that people are helpless is just retarded and encourages a dependence on government that is unhealthy. Especially since the % of the population you are is discribing small to insignificant. Even during slavery people saw the importance of education and fought for it, for themselves and their children, you really believe that people would not be able to do even more now; this kind of thinking just does not add up to me.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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12-25-2007, 06:53 PM | #71 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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On one hand you are saying that people would see the need and do it themselves if the government did not provide it. But on the other, you are saying that public school is obviously bad (which I don't agree with), yet these same people do not realize it. If they are not at least taking what the government provides, and then adding to it, they are certainly not going to do it all themselves. Look to many places in Africa if you want to see what a country can end up like without public education.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-25-2007, 07:44 PM | #72 | ||||
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Let me tell you that africa is in the situation that it is in because of the international bankers and their preditory lending policies and the puppet governments they back in those countries; I mentioned propaganda earlier, this info is not hard to find out. The state of africa is exactly what I fear, if you think your government is not a puppet government you have got another thing coming. Africa is a good example of what happens when the system has undisputed power. So I say to you again, do let your government have the power to decide the future of your children, that is for you to decide.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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12-25-2007, 11:52 PM | #73 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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I don't know. I've met a lot of parents over the years, and while most care deeply for their children, I think the ones that could raise them properly if purely left to their own devices are few and far between. In fact, I'm not even sure if my wife and I could, and she's extremely qualified as far as being an educator.
In my mind, if you can't learn in a public environment, you can't live in a public environment. It's far from perfect, but it brings people together, from all walks of life, all home situations, and all economic situations, in an atmosphere where they have to learn to live with one another. Those growing years are one of the few where you will interact with people you might never see again throughout the rest of your life, and that experience of the totality of what it is to be part of the human society is essential to our future well-being, warts and all. It's an equalizer that disappears when one turns eighteen and shuffles their way into their own little corner of comfortability. I'd never refuse someone the choice of homeschooling, but I'd advise against it. Public school is more than just education, it's about discovering ones own society.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
12-26-2007, 10:29 AM | #74 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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12-26-2007, 02:29 PM | #75 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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If you think that you leave clannish-nish or clique-iness is left behind in high school... That never stops. What high school does is TRAIN people for life later on. Home schooled children learn the same skills through social groups, etc. It's a very important skill - socialising & dealing with cliques. Teens just exaggerate those skills like a thousand-times.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
12-26-2007, 02:50 PM | #76 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Absolutely. I see that at work. I see it in our religious divisions. I see it in our extraciricular activities. In our politics. Even in how manicured our lawns are or who owns what car or where they live etc. It never ends. Its human nature. The difference is kids are more in your face about it and you get phenomenon like "mean girls". Adults tend to be somewhat in denial about it and go about it in a subtler more hypocritical way. Its all sad though. And kids who arent prepared to deal with the clannishness of human nature are sure to have a rough time dealing with it in their real lives.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
12-26-2007, 02:53 PM | #77 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
"Dealing with people" and "behaving cliquishly" are two completely different things, I think. Some people (homeschooled or otherwise) have more people skills than others, that's natural. But adults, who are tasked with the responsibility of educating children, need to give them skills for not being bullies, as well as for coping with bullies, and for not excluding people, as well as for coping with exclusion. Those skills aren't learned from peers, generally. And I understand why teachers, with other pressures, don't take them on in school, as they used to. But it's a shortcoming of the system I don't see repeated in the larger world. As I said, maybe my experience is unusual.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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12-26-2007, 02:56 PM | #78 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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12-27-2007, 12:53 AM | #79 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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I'm glad that you are not experiencing or seeing it, but trust me, cliques still exist. I worked for a union recently, and I was frozen out, ignored, bullied, and treated way worse than any experience I ever had at high school.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
12-27-2007, 01:17 AM | #80 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Well, and most of those people had the "benefit" of public school, probably.
Wouldn't it be better to be concentrating on ending that behavior young? It's all "getting hit on the head lessons", isn't it.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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