Please reply

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Valandil
While writing the above, I intended to mention that we Protestants have had our problems too (I will edit accordingly). There IS one problem with all churches... they're made up entirely of people!

Lol, yes.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Lizra
ewwww! Looks like the stuff those Christian Convention goers would leave instead of tips ( $ ) at the restaurant I used to work at.

Matthew 16: 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Or woman in this case.... of course they could leave a tract AND a tip

[Rían]

I think in the case of leaving a tract and not a tip it's truly a case of the person being selfish and cheap and inconsiderate of others and hypocritical and self-deceptive and lovers of money (hmm, anything else? I guess that's enough for now). I think by far the more applicable verse here would be the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would like them to do for you.

I'm with Val - I tend to leave a bigger tip, esp. if I think the server knows I'm a Christian (because I pray before the meal). Christians should be the hands and feet and mouth of Christ to others. To paraphrase the famous passage on love in 1st Corinthians, "If I leave a tract speaking of the love of Christ, but do not have love myself, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."

[Rían]

Survey Question for Christians
Name: Sharon
Age: 45
Age that you became a Christian: about 14
Country and/or state/ general area- California, USA
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What/who lead you to Christ? -
During a weekend event at our church, I heard the gospel presented by a person that really demonstrated the love and compassion of Christ. IT ... MADE ... SENSE. Period. It was not an emotional decision.

Did you grow up in a Christian church? -
well, it was a Methodist church, but I don't remember the preaching being very good or accurate.

Did you grow up in a Christian family? -
I grew up in a family that attended church and had Christian morals. We weren't Christians, tho, until I was 14 (my mom and 2 sisters also accepted Christ during that weekend) and a few years later for my dad.

Do you still attend Church faithfully to this day? -
absolutely! Great place, esp. to coordinate ministering to other people and to worship God (and actually, ministering to others in need is a big part of true worship) and to chat and have fun! That camping trip I mentioned where I got the group site - there's going to be 80 of us Christians just rockin' out at Refugio beach, having a great time rejoicing in God's creation and in each other! (and God created campfires and marshmallows, BTW)

What do you think turns people off from Christianity? - hypocrisy exhibited by some Christians (like leaving tracts instead of tips); having to admit that you're not God, and never will be, in order to become a Christian (but this is a GOOD thing when you think about it); many Christians that you see on tv or in the news that seem to care more about political statements than love and compassion; hypocritical "Sunday" Christians that go to church once a week and make no effort to truly follow Christ in their lives the rest of the week (not that going to church in itself is following Christ!)

Also, I, personally, turn off people from Christianity plenty of times And that's one reason (of many) why God's love is so precious to me - He loves me anyway, no matter how many times I blow it, and dusts me off, and sets me back on my feet, and tells me to get out there and start loving again and demonstrating God's love and heart to people. And He helps me to do this.

How should we (as Christians) best approach sharing the Gospel? -
I think by exhibiting the love of Christ to others. This does not mean mushy, door-mat love like "oh, God loves you and anything you do is just fine, even if it directly contradicts the Bible!" This means literally hard-as-nails love - love that's willing to turn the other cheek if it will help someone, to go the extra mile, to be there thru thick and thin, to sacrifice for others, to see and acknowledge the preciousness of other people while not soft-pedaling sin, to share joy and sorrow, etc. Also to take the time to be prepared to share about the reasons behind your faith, as it says in 1st Peter - IOW, don't be intellectually lazy - use your brain and think things through! God is truth: truth, reason and logic are always on the side of the Christian, if they can see it.

Do you believe in the age of accountability? Can you tell me why or why not? Are there any references in the Bible to this? How old is a person when they reach the age of accountability? If the age varies, then at what point dose a child become responsible for his/her sins? -
Yes, based on a few verses like when King David's infant son died, but basically it boils down to it's not a magic number; the answer is in the character of God, which is wholly just and fair.

Is the King James Version the only correct version of the Bible? Do you think that this has any effects on people becoming Christians or not? Why is the King James version the only correct one? -
of course not. There are many good translations out there, and as someone pointed out, that's rather tough on non-English speakers if the KJV is the only correct version. That's just ludicrous.

Should the Gospel be shared with children, adults, teenagers, or who? Why? -
The Gospel literally means "good news". I like to share good news with anyone that's interested. The Bible is appropriate for ANY age - the littlest infant can splash in the fringes, and the wisest theologian can never touch bottom in the deeps.

Have you ever bean physically or verbally persecuted for your religious beliefs? If so, how, and why do you think it happened? Did this happen in the USA? (If this has happened multiple times, then pick one verbal and one physical action that stands out to you the most) -
Just some verbal abuse - things like Christians are stupid, brainless, don't think at all, follow things mindlessly, are intolerant, prejudiced, hypocritical, arrogant, etc. Now I would agree that these words apply to some Christians, just as they apply to some non-Christians. But it's pretty silly and also inaccurate to apply them as a blanket statement to all Christians.

May the hair on your feet never fall out! -
thanks, but being a woman, I prefer smooth skin! *plucks out a toe hair* But I appreciate the thought

And I would like to add that IMO, Christianity is the only worldview out there that - (hmm, really the only appropriate expression I can think of is a bit coarse, but it's exactly the meaning I want to get across) - it's the only worldview out there that has the, um, equipment (a substitute word for a 5-letter word starting with "b") to deal with the entire real world and real people. Both men and women are made in the image of God, and the Bible states that they're equal in the sight of God, but it's for a very good reason that God is portrayed as a man, IMO.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I think in the case of leaving a tract and not a tip it's truly a case of the person being selfish and cheap and inconsiderate of others and hypocritical and self-deceptive and lovers of money (hmm, anything else? I guess that's enough for now). I think by far the more applicable verse here would be the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would like them to do for you.

I'm with Val - I tend to leave a bigger tip, esp. if I think the server knows I'm a Christian (because I pray before the meal). Christians should be the hands and feet and mouth of Christ to others. To paraphrase the famous passage on love in 1st Corinthians, "If I leave a tract speaking of the love of Christ, but do not have love myself, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."

Hey...you're sweet!

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Its funny, the catholics expected to go to heaven because of good deeds, and the protestants expect to go if go to church every sunday... .
Seems every church denomination goes corrupt sooner or later, in some way or other. I'm not stereotyping, just an observation from another christian-me.

Are you saying Orthodox people are perfect? ...you who have been every denomination under the sun!

[Valandil]

Survey Question for Christians
Name: Karl
Age: 41
Age that you became a Christian: 15
Country and/or state/ general area- Illinois (Chicago now - Carbondale at 15 - about 350 mi south of Chicago)
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What/who lead you to Christ?
Love and prayers of the people at the church I attended, preaching of my pastor, work of the Holy Spirit


Did you grow up in a Christian church?
Attended a small Methodist Church when I was younger (elementary school age), but either because it wasn't presented clearly, or because it went over my head, I didn't fully understand the gospel at the time. It was at a Church of the Nazarene where I became a Christian.


Did you grow up in a Christian family?
Not really, but there was some 'Christian Heritage' - though not pervasive. We didn't talk about our faith. When we were small children, our mother took all of us kids to church. When I was a teen-ager, I began attending alone with friends I met at school.

Do you still attend Church faithfully to this day?
Yes, my family is quite active - and having a 'grow where you're planted' mentality, I've stuck with 'The Church of the Nazarene' at each place I've lived (Carbondale, Champaign, Chicago).


What do you think turns people off from Christianity?
As some have rightly pointed out, there are Christians who don't live up to what they should know, and there are those who claim to be Christians who make it their mission to simply try to be 'righteous' - without knowing (or at least talking) about God's great love (NOTE: God does not hate ANYONE!). There's more though: I think as our culture has become very 'me-oriented' - anything that presents an absolute truth, which can be inconveniently against our own wishes, lacks 'popular appeal'. Also - I don't think our media gives either fair or kind portrayals of Christians or Christianity in most cases. I don't think most of us are as mean or as stupid as we're depicted (though I do know SOME - but those people would have been much the same WITHOUT Christianity - and perhaps they're not letting Christ work in their lives).


How should we (as Christians) best approach sharing the Gospel?
Probably with a lot more effort and focus than I typically do. People need to know - and we're the only ones who can tell them. We DO have to get to know them first - but we can't let our witness always remain a 'silent witness'. So, I'd say we need to: be friends with people, share what we believe and live what we believe.


Do you believe in the age of accountability? Can you tell me why or why not? Are there any references in the Bible to this? How old is a person when they reach the age of accountability? If the age varies, then at what point dose a child become responsible for his/her sins?
My church believes in this, without pinning it down to a certain age. I'm not sure of what references are used to support it, but it does seem a reasonable belief. Someone mentioned how Jesus said we were to come to Him as little children. Perhaps point where one can know right from wrong (and I used to think that was maybe around 10 or 12 - but as a father I know that's MUCH earlier) - maybe there is something to those late pre-teen years though, because that's when people gain the ability to think abstractly. I don't know - and maybe we can't be certain - but the concept certainly seems sound within the framework of God's mercy.


Is the King James Version the only correct version of the Bible? Do you think that this has any effects on people becoming Christians or not? Why is the King James version the only correct one?
This one almost makes me laugh, but I'll try to take it seriously. I assume you mean the only correct English version of the Bible - or we have some explaining to do to Paul, John, Moses, Solomon, Elijah, etc. Even just English though, I don't see why - did the translators of that version have particular insights? Was James an especially righteous King? Were the manuscripts discovered since that time not helpful? Is 16th century English more pleasing to God than 21st century English? I think it's best to have a good translation (not a paraphrase - at least not for serious study) in clear, understandable English. In most cases, I think people today will better understand a more current language edition - like the NIV, RSV, NASB or even the NKJV.


Should the Gospel be shared with children, adults, teenagers, or who? Why?
Of course - on this I can only echo all the good and correct things earlier stated.


Have you ever bean physically or verbally persecuted for your religious beliefs? If so, how, and why do you think it happened? Did this happen in the USA? (If this has happened multiple times, then pick one verbal and one physical action that stands out to you the most)
No - not really persecuted. Some have disagreed with me, argued with me - or made a little fun of me, but all that's really nothing. Not at all like the real persecution faced by the church throughout the centuries - and even today in certain nations - like most Islamic or Communist nations, India, etc.

[Elf Girl]

While there's Christians hanging out here, could I offer a suggestion on sharing your Gospel?

Don't. Push. It.

It makes me sick when a certain one of my Christian friend plugs her religion at every oppurtunity. I understand that she wants me to be happy, but I've made my decision. My cooler Christian friend made it clear that her religion makes her happy, and that she wishes I could share that happiness, but she understands that my lack of religion makes me equally happy. THAT is the way to collect converts. Be happy, show that your religion has a positive affect on your life, but don't point it out. If God wants us he can come and get us.

[Rían]

Elf Girl, do you think Val and I "push it"? Just curious ...

[Valandil]

Not to be... pushy

Originally posted by Elf Girl
If God wants us he can come and get us.

but that sounds like something a Christian would say about you! Do you have a Christian background?

I'll look back over this thread and see if you did the survey and whether you said so or not - I just don't remember all four pages of replies.

(PS - I'd also love to hear your answer to Rian's question)

[Rían]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
If God wants us he can come and get us.

But He does want us and He did come to get us, Elf Girl - but not in the stereotypic cave man style (bop us over the head with a club and carry us off). He came down to earth to provide a way back to Him for anyone that wants it. That's one of the amazing things about God - with all His power, he doesn't grab us - he woos us; He calls to our hearts that something is missing ...

That's what free will is about - why would God give us free will if He intended to drive right over it?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
While there's Christians hanging out here, could I offer a suggestion on sharing your Gospel?

Don't. Push. It.

It makes me sick when a certain one of my Christian friend plugs her religion at every oppurtunity. I understand that she wants me to be happy, but I've made my decision. My cooler Christian friend made it clear that her religion makes her happy, and that she wishes I could share that happiness, but she understands that my lack of religion makes me equally happy. THAT is the way to collect converts. Be happy, show that your religion has a positive affect on your life, but don't point it out. If God wants us he can come and get us.

I just want to say, dont think you've got your definite decision made. God works in more than one way...
I suppose that was a bit pushy? nah.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Are you saying Orthodox people are perfect? ...you who have been every denomination under the sun!

well, Orthodox does mean correct .....
nah, just was recounting an observation

[Sminty_Smeagol]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SamwiseLover2008
[B]

Survey Questions for non-Christians
Name: Lizzypoo
Age: 15.45 (approx.)
Religion/beliefs: Agnosticish
Where you live:
USA
What turns you off (makes you not interested) when you hear the word Christian, see a Bible est.?
I have no problem with the religion itself. The base, core, spiritual existance of it. hmm well Christians themselves. Especially the naive ones my age who think that I am demon posessed and needy of the bible because I wear black, and assign spiritual forces to mental conditions and things they do not understand (sorry if I am a bit spiteful, I had an exorcism attempted on me today). And the fact that they think I am a bad person because I do not follow the bible when they themselves partake in all sorts of abhorrable acts and feel no regret for the hypocrisy of it.

If you have, why have you chosen a different religion over Christianity?
Well I don't believe anything. I don't even believe there isn't a god. I'm just in Limbo (this isn't a conversion call... I'm sick of people trying to get me all emotionally religious). I was attending a christian school and I realized that everyone there had such shallow beliefs... such hypocrisy... and that that was not what I wanted to be. But I didn't feel capable of devoting myself so strongly to that and having to reject other christians' effects, and I knew I would still be so distant from other followers of the religion, although they seem united in it. I think it would be a personal thing. I really needed a revelation... and it made me realize... I didn't believe in it enough to truly commit my mind and my life to it, and I wasn't satisfied just having this wishy washy brainwashed cliche emotional stuff other people had, where they changed their following of the bible based around their own desires. I began to realize that god isn't real, atleast I'm not sure enough in it that I could really commit myself to it and consider myself a christian. I didn't want to just take the 'jesus loves me and forgives me for everything so it doesn't matter what I do and I get to preach at people' aspect.... So now I am just full of spite

If you are out of your parents house, then did you grow up in a Christian home? If you are not out of your parents house, then are you growing up in a Christian home?
Yes I am growing up in a Christian home.

If you answered no to either of the questions above, then did you grow up ever going to church? If so, how often? If you grew up in a family with different religious beliefs, then what were they, and do you believe in them to this day?
I go to church every week. My parents make me go but I don't mind most of the time. I love my pastor, he's very intelligent and solid. He's very humble also. Just like the coolest christian I know. very open minded.

What would make you interested in learning more about Christianity?
Nothing.

Did The Passion of the Christ, The Jesus Video, The Jesus Video for Children, or any other video that you might have seen have any effect on you? If so, what was it?
I thought the Passion was excessively gorey, and it reminded me of the fact that Christians are very open to brainwashing from any medium deemed Christian.

Are there any movies, plays, books, est. that have interested you into further research and possibly attending church? If so then what? Why?
Blegh, I already like going, for the same reason a christian would hopefully like to go to a Darwinism class. To understand.

Out of ten, rate the chances of you becoming a Christian or faithfully attending a Christian church weekly, one being the lowest, and ten being the highest, any time in the rest of your life.
Why? 10- I already attend church weekly. For becoming a christian? No idea. Hopefully a 0.

I am very proud of my decision, and consider it one of the more respectable things I have done in my life. I am not contributing to the brainwashed degradation of religion, and that is a good thing. When I am approached by those whose abhorrable religious aspect I spite, I could almost vomit in repulse.

[Pirate]

Survey Questions for non-Christians
Name: Liz
Age: 13
Religion/beliefs: Depending on my mood I can be just about anything. Today I'm pagan, yesterday I was Buddhist, and a lot of the times I'm atheist but mostly I guess I'm agnostic.
Where you live: In a tiny hick-town next to the PA border in NY
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What turns you off (makes you not interested) when you hear the word Christian, see a Bible est.? 95% of the time I don't really care when I see a Bible or hear about a Christian. If people want to believe in Christianity that's fine with me. What bothers me is people trying to make me Christian. I'm not, and no matter how much somebody tries to tell me how awful "hell" is going to be I'm still not going to change.

If you have, why have you chosen a different religion over Christianity? I don't agree with a lot of what's said. I'm a feminist, vegetarian, who strongly supports gay rights. I don't think God is jealous, I agree with Tyler Durden in saying that most likely god hates humans.

If you are out of your parents house, then did you grow up in a Christian home? If you are not out of your parents house, then are you growing up in a Christian home? My dad was an atheist and he was narrow-minded about Christians when I was younger. He'd lecture me on why Christians suck. I was only six so I think it changed my opinion on Christianity. I have no problem with Christians, but I could never become one. My mother was Christian but not very Christian. She's also somewhat pagan and at times Buddhist. Her open mind made me more of what I am today.

If you answered no to either of the questions above, then did you grow up ever going to church? If so, how often? If you grew up in a family with different religious beliefs, then what were they, and do you believe in them to this day? We went to church every now and then though we definitely didn't go every Sunday. My father never came with us.

What would make you interested in learning more about Christianity? I already would like to know about Christianity because I know so little of the religion that is shaping our nation.

Did The Passion of the Christ, The Jesus Video, The Jesus Video for Children, or any other video that you might have seen have any effect on you? If so, what was it? I've never seen a Jesus movie.

Are there any movies, plays, books, est. that have interested you into further research and possibly attending church? If so then what? Why? I wanted to see the Passion but it was so gory decided not to. Other than that I've never seen or read anything Christian

Out of ten, rate the chances of you becoming a Christian or faithfully attending a Christian church weekly, one being the lowest, and ten being the highest, any time in the rest of your life.
Why? There’s no way I could say the rest of my life. Maybe I'll have so vision telling me that I must save Christ’s children and start raving on about Jesus on top on a chair in central park at NYC. For the next maybe, 10 years or so (guessing that I don't have an visions) I’d say the chances are about 2 or 2 1/2 .

[Earniel]

Survey Questions for non-Christians
Name: Sarah
Age: 22
Religion/beliefs: agnostic
Where you live: Belgium
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What turns you off (makes you not interested) when you hear the word Christian, see a Bible est.?
I'm not really turned off by the word Christian ect., but it does tend to have a negative connotation for me due to some christians I met that wouldn't know the basic principles of christianity if it bit them in a sensitive area but still were so sure that they deserved heaven without a hesitation. One of them happened to be the priest of our community.

If you have, why have you chosen a different religion over Christianity?
Christianity had some ethics that I didn't want to lead my life by. But I haven't chosen any religion over christianity, since none of them have given me sufficient answers so far.

If you are out of your parents house, then did you grow up in a Christian home? If you are not out of your parents house, then are you growing up in a Christian home?
Religion is kept out of the family life. Except for the family party and presents at Christmas and chocolate for Easter.

If you answered no to either of the questions above, then did you grow up ever going to church? If so, how often? If you grew up in a family with different religious beliefs, then what were they, and do you believe in them to this day?
I went to a rather strict catholic school for 12 years until I got 18. I had to visit church for several occasions for my first and second(whatsitcalled again?) Communion and we had many semi-church services at our own school at every christian occasion.

What would make you interested in learning more about Christianity?
About christianity as a religion: nothing much. I have seen plenty of it at school. But I would be interested in learning a bit more about christianity from the mythological point of view, just like I'm interested in Celtic, Aztec and other mythologies. Such as what the symbols are of the different saints and why.

Did The Passion of the Christ, The Jesus Video, The Jesus Video for Children, or any other video that you might have seen have any effect on you? If so, what was it?
Never seen any of them. Don't specifically plan on seeing them either. I doubt they would effect me any more than a regular movie. I did see 'the life of Brian' which was highly amusing and some other movie about Noah that started out amusing but got boring in the end.

Are there any movies, plays, books, est. that have interested you into further research and possibly attending church? If so then what? Why?
No.

Out of ten, rate the chances of you becoming a Christian or faithfully attending a Christian church weekly, one being the lowest, and ten being the highest, any time in the rest of your life.
Why?
That depends on many things. In the current situation: perhaps 1,5. I've got some bad memories of that priest in my high-school days.

Have you ever bean physically or verbally persecuted for your religious beliefs? If so, how, and why do you think it happened? Did this happen in the USA? (If this has happened multiple times, then pick one verbal and one physical action that stands out to you the most)
I really think you ought to ask this to the non-christians too. While I haven't experienced any of this personally, I know of people being insulted just because they didn't believe or went to church.

[Bombadillo]

I'm gonna fill this out without reading the rest of the responses, maybe to test myself and maybe because I'm lazy.

Name: Steve
Age: 16
Age that you became a Christian: three weeks after birth
Country and/or state/ general area- Northern NJ
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What/who lead you to Christ?
Catholic parents

Did you grow up in a Christian church?
yes

Did you grow up in a Christian family?
yes

Do you still attend Church faithfully to this day?
Depends on what you mean by "faithfully." I go every Sunday I easily can, and that's not really my decision. Then I daydream, and usually forget not to recieve Communion, because it will supposedly send me to hell when I've got sin on my soul.

What do you think turns people off from Christianity?
1) the fact that so many people have taken to it, they are hesitant that no one of us knows why
2) They do not understand the role of faith.
3) The common mindset of "Beadditudes!? F*** you! Christians can't have any fun at all!"

How should we (as Christians) best approach sharing the Gospel?
Simply correct the skeptics you hear in casual conversation.

Do you believe in the age of accountability? Can you tell me why or why not? Are there any references in the Bible to this? How old is a person when they reach the age of accountability? If the age varies, then at what point does a child become responsible for his/her sins?
Age 7, you mean? That is when the Catholic Church claims God will hold you accountible for your sins, so that isn't really my decision. Nonetheless, I think that seems too standard for so many individuals.

Is the King James Version the only correct version of the Bible? Do you think that this has any effects on people becoming Christians or not? Why is the King James version the only correct one?
I do not believe so.

Should the Gospel be shared with children, adults, teenagers, or who? Why?
Everyone, unless they're not willing enough to hear it (in which case, to hell with 'em! ). And why not? (<--rhetorical you bigots)

Have you ever been physically or verbally persecuted for your religious beliefs? If so, how, and why do you think it happened? Did this happen in the USA? (If this has happened multiple times, then pick one verbal and one physical action that stands out to you the most.)
On a very minor scale: There are many people around school (Catholic school, btw) who regularly bash Christianity, and seemingly refuse to listen to any individual corrections of them or to try piecing all the information they've been giving together for a clearer understanding of why Christians believe what they do. Perhaps that isn't even persecution at all, but some people sure hate Christians.

EDIT: fixed up a few typos too.

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Eärniel
What turns you off (makes you not interested) when you hear the word Christian, see a Bible est.?
I'm not really turned off by the word Christian ect., but it does tend to have a negative connotation for me due to some christians I met that wouldn't know the basic principles of christianity if it bit them in a sensitive area but still were so sure that they deserved heaven without a hesitation. One of them happened to be the priest of our community.
...
What would make you interested in learning more about Christianity?
About christianity as a religion: nothing much. I have seen plenty of it at school. But I would be interested in learning a bit more about christianity from the mythological point of view, just like I'm interested in Celtic, Aztec and other mythologies. Such as what the symbols are of the different saints and why.

I rather enjoy conversations about those things, if you're really interested. I promise no sale pitches for Christianity.
(Aaww... I would have pointed you to a discussion at Took Talk but Emplynx stopped paying his bills. Now I'm really sad...)

In any case, there was a debate about Genesis, in which no one seemed to believe me that the priests who wrote it did not intend for it to be taken literally. First creation story symbols: God created everything; he is all-knowing and all-powerful. Second story, of Adam and Eve: God created Man; God made us in his image; we are the protectors of God's creations, as the intelligent species; we are sinners; we are inferior to God's almighty power.

I think those are the most famous myths in the Bible, and I've stated them extremely basically only because you haven't yet expressed specific interest in hearing them.

I liked that Took Talk thread. That's probably why I vaguely remember mentioning it other times on Entmoot.