12-13-2006, 08:55 PM | #61 | ||
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As far as the case goes, this is the real important part: Quote:
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12-13-2006, 10:35 PM | #62 |
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They'd have joint custody, that's how it would have been treated.
Some biological parents are bad, but they do have an interest in their own offspring; that's why, unless they're proven incompetent, the courts will (and, frankly, IMO, should) give them preference.
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12-14-2006, 06:11 PM | #63 | ||
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That is so sexist! And ridiculous! Just because someone works a lot, they're a bad mother?
I plan on working full time. My future husband plans on being a stay-at-home dad. If we ever split the sheets, would custody of our future children go to him? Except, that it is also not acceptable in our ridiculous society for fathers to stay at home with the kids.
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 12-14-2006 at 06:15 PM. Reason: apostrophe misuse |
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12-14-2006, 09:53 PM | #64 |
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The issue is not that someone simply "works a lot." The issue is that the person in this case evidently worked so much that the court found that she did not actually establish a serious (bilateral) emotional link with the child. This happens in plenty of unmarried breakups across the country; the only reason it really comes up this time is that the couple happens to be homosexual.
And note that if you had kids with your "future husband" you'd both get custody as you'd both be biological parents. And also, if you were in fact husband & wife with the kids, that would also go into the decision, which was not true in the case Inked raised.
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12-15-2006, 12:35 AM | #65 | |
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12-15-2006, 12:39 AM | #66 |
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The key point here lies in what you say about "which they did." Clearly, the court that returned the child to people like them failed. That doesn't mean the idea isn't sound, just that it can be misapplied.
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12-15-2006, 06:33 AM | #67 | |
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It seems that the plaintiff wanted to get around this by arguing that there was an effective contract between her and her ex. The court seems to have gone for saying "no there wasn't" rather than "that's irrelevant", but would probably have done the latter if she had been around more. Let's say I was living with my hetero partner, who was pregnant with someone else's child when we started our relationship. We split up when the child is 3 years old. Even if I had stayed at home and looked after it whilst the mother went out to work, I would have no rights in law (here in the UK anyway). One would hope that we would be adult enough to be able to work something out between us, as it does children no good to "lose" parental relationships at any point in their lives, but especially when they are young. However, as we know, this is often not the case, and it does children even less good to be caught between warring factions. The fact that the ex-couple had not come to such an arrangement shows that it is probably inappropriate (assuming that mediation had been attempted). This happens lots of times with straight couples. This case is just an extreme example of it (in that the lesbian couple in question made a decision to have a family together). If anything, the case shows yet another aspect of the importance of allowing homosexuals to marry (i.e. have relationships which are recognised in law) and the absurdity of denying it to them. Last edited by The Gaffer : 12-15-2006 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Adding yet more bollox |
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12-15-2006, 09:17 AM | #68 | |
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There is too much emphasis on biology. Think of it this way. If a couple adopts a baby and raises it for twelve years, then the biological mother comes along and wants custody, should she get it? I don't think so. Your true "parent" is the one who brings you up, not the one who gave birth to you.
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12-15-2006, 09:39 AM | #69 | |
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Gaffer: To quote the article Inked originally posted:
Quote:
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12-15-2006, 09:50 AM | #70 |
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Okey dokey. I wonder if many dads would be able to demonstrate "equal nurturing" in the absence of paperwork. I know I couldn't...
However, I think the point is still valid that, if anything, this case shows the need for formal gay marriages. Last edited by The Gaffer : 12-15-2006 at 09:51 AM. |
12-20-2006, 02:40 AM | #71 | |||
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I agree with the Gaffer, this does outline the need for gay marriage.
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01-08-2007, 04:48 PM | #72 |
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Speaking of "too much emphasis on biology," now there's this:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/17141.html (Ooohh, it's from Earthtimes! It must be true, mustn't it?!) And, if it is, http://exodus.blogs.com/liveoutloud/...nge_possi.html Comments? Finally, if it's not choice and it's not biology, just what is it?
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01-08-2007, 06:40 PM | #73 | |
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The article isn't really well-written. I'd take the quote "They are afraid the efforts could lead to extinction of homosexuality in humans." with a pinch of salt since it sounds plain silly. Sadly, medical studies are very often presented quite poorly by journalists (there are dedicated and competent sports journalists but there are seldom knowledgeable journalists with insight in medicine to cover such news). Facts are easily distorted. For instance when the article says "Oregon State University have been able to identify the processes that influence their sexual orientation" it immediately feels like an oversimplification. Sexuality and sexual behaviour are complex and it's highly unlikely the researchers have found the processes but rather some processes. The researcher's statement that "sexuality has been an under-studied subject because of political concerns" isn't entirely true. I don't know about Oregon but studies are definitely made and "under-studied" might be the wrong word to use. The blogger wonders why would [the gay activists] oppose research which ... would seem to prove that homosexuality is biological, at least in animals?" I don't think this is the case at all. This study however, according to the article, "is confined to reducing or eliminating gay sheep" and that's what they are opposing. One has to ask what is the underlying reason for ths study. Is it only because farmers are financially affected when one in ten rams are gay? Or could it be that there is an underlying notion that homosexuality - be it in sheep or humans - is wrong and should therefore be tested for a cure? I should think the gay activists believe the latter. And to protest against the belief that homosexuality is wrong is exactly what gay activists do. This is why they oppose this study but the blogger doesn't see this. The blogger talks about how "nobody wants to be gay" and that "people would be leaving the gay lifestyle in droves" if there was a "gay remedy". He can believe that all he wants, there are many who would say the opposite - especially those who know people who are into the so-called gay lifestyle. Like, I don' think churches would empty and the pope resign if it was proved beyond any doubt that God doesn't exist. Christians would want to remain Christians. The blogger has read somewhat dubious article with his homophobic lenses on.
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01-08-2007, 10:16 PM | #74 | |
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Which is so totally on topic.
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01-08-2007, 11:15 PM | #75 | |
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What's heterosexuality, biology or choice?
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01-09-2007, 03:46 AM | #76 | ||
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If I discovered that there was no God, I wouldn't commit suicide. I would probably go to drugs and start cutting myself, though. An interactive God is who I live my life based on. I love him. We have conversations with one another, back and forth. He speaks to me, and he also answers my prayers. The fabric of my reality depends wholly upon him. If he were ever absolutely disproven, I would be ripped to shreds. I also would know that everything is meaningless and the human race is doomed to disappear from existence and memory. Nothing would end up being left. Random chance rules and moral values are mere social constructions for the meaningless "good" of society, which really should take second place in my life to what I feel is "good" for me. There would be no wrong. No bad. I could kill someone and it wouldn't matter, except for me because society might punish me. But then if I'm only matter, I don't matter . So that too is just irrelevant to anything. It's no wonder that one major atheistic philosopher said that the most profound question for humans to consider is whether or not we should commit suicide. Don't let any of this convince you that it isn't safe to debate with me . If you defeat me in every issue we could debate here, you still wouldn't make me believe God was disproven. For one, it's impossible to prove a negative, and for two, personal experience of communing with an interactive God rules out his not existing, for me.
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01-09-2007, 08:16 AM | #77 |
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Oh my Lief! That is so dramatic! 50 years has taught me this.......you wake up, you do some work, you go to bed.....someday you die and you don't have to bother anymore..... enjoy it as best you can.
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01-09-2007, 09:54 AM | #78 | |||
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Off-topic!!
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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01-09-2007, 12:32 PM | #79 | |||
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That blogger looks like he comes from the Exodus International Organization. If that's the case, then he probably is in contact with loads of homosexuals who do want to change their sexual orientation. That's the kind of people that would go to Exodus International. So the blogger would only be hearing from one side of the homosexual community- the side that wants to change. That probably accounts for his views on the matter.
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01-09-2007, 02:25 PM | #80 |
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So the anti gay marriage folk are now admitting that homosexuality occurs in nature (and is therefore NATURAL)? My what a radical shift from the ITS JUST AN IMMORAL LIFE STYLE CHOICE! rantings...
Although I remain dubious as far as the science behind whats written there. It seems way too simplistic. I would like to see the meat of the study. What it is specifically that determines if a sheep is "gay" or not. I mean if its just a matter of tweaking some hormones I would think this would have been well known long ago.
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