Scenes that should not be left out of the Two Towers

[Bard]

Probably it`s already said, but I`m not in for it to read all posts. Anyhow this is what part of the movie I wouldn`t want PJ to left out of it:
-The battle of the Ents at Isengard.
-The slaying of Theodred
-The battle with the Mumakil of Harad near Henneth-Annun.
Maybe one of you could tell me wheather these scenes will come in the movie? Or haven`t you got a clue either?

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with you azalea, Grishnagh (sp?) and that other Orc provide unexpected comic releif. (I need to read the book again.)
It would be a shame if they were left out.

[madeyejay]

I don't understand something about the moving of Shelob. They need to fill some time in RotK, then leave the scouring of the shire in.

[Bard]

Then the TTT should be longer, and the Shelob scene could quite some time. Also I think that Shelob`s appereance at the beginning of RotK would be more suitable, and not just because it`s a great way to get your public seated at the point of there chairs while the movie has just got started. But also because of the Frodo/Sam/Gollum-walking the stairs of Morgul-valley would be a propreate way to end TTT. It leaves an open ending like FotR wich is quiete sutable. Indeed it`s a petty that the scouring of the Shire is been left out, but I don`t see it as a nescecaty for the film (cous book and film simply can`t be an exact copy of each other mostly due to time problems in the film).

[WallRocker]

Altough Peter Jackson can not leave out the Ents, as they are the ones that Storm Sarumans Fortress, I'm guessing that a lot will be left out of the whole Ent Scene, just as Tom Bombadil and the Barrow-Downs were left out of FOTR

[Nurvingiel]

If Shelob is moved, what will be the climatic even of the Two Towers?

There's no was the scouring of the Shire can be taken out of the Return of the King. No way!

[Eowyn of Rohan]

Okay... wait wait waaait a second. Hold on!

Who said the Scouring of the Shire wouldn't be in ROTK?

From what I've heard (and seen from bootleg movie images), it will be!! It's essential when dealing with the end of Saruman and wormtongue, the marriage of Sam to Rosie, the birth of Elanor, the rise of Merry and Pippin, and the final voyage of Frodo separating him from Sam. True, they may not devote a WHOLE lot of time to it (even reading the book, I felt the climax of the books was the battle, mt. doom, and the quick following of the coronation and marriage. The rest is 'wrap up" (sorry, for those who feel different).

IMO, the story (in the book anyway.. since neither TTT or ROTK movie are out yet) goes from following the hobbits, to following man kind (while still keeping the hobbit's story going), and then culminates with wrapping up man kind's involvement by switching back to following the hobbits. And, therefore,.. we have a circle.... a "ring", if you will.

(( ooo, I like that. I'm GOOD! ))

In order to follow that flow and give ANY KIND of resolution,... it will HAVE TO BE in the ROTK movie.

::SPOILER BELOW::



Besides.... that image of Saruman splayed out dead on top of Hobbiton's blackened mill wheel is too blazening to the imagination to think that they won't cover the Scouring.

So just calm down everybody. The movies aren't out yet! We'll know soon enough.

::switcing sides suddenly::
BUT NOT NEARLY SOON ENOUGH FOR ME!!!!! HOW MANY MORE DAYS??? HOOOOWW MAAANNNNY MOORE DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYS!!!!!!!??????????????

[Starr Polish]

Deep breaths, Eowyn, deep breaths.

Okay. 39 days until the movie.

I'm fairly sure that the scouring is OUT. This was made official the same time Peter said there would be no Shelob in TTT.

[Eowyn of Rohan]

Hmmmmmmm..... I don't like where this is going.
I'm off to do some investigation. I'll let you know the results.

[Nurvingiel]

I don't like where this is going either Eowyn. You have a history of good posts, I hope your investigations turn up something good! Cheers.

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Eowyn of Rohan
Besides.... that image of Saruman splayed out dead on top of Hobbiton's blackened mill wheel is too blazening to the imagination to think that they won't cover the Scouring.

Whoa. That would be LUUUUUSH! I'd always assumed it would be on a wheel of his own making. Arg.

Someone mentioned Theodred: he wasn't even in TTT, other than by reference, was he? But I reckon they'll add that stuff as build-up to the seige of Helm's Deep.

[Eowyn of Rohan]

MAJOR SPOILERS!!!
LOTS OF INFO ENCLOSED!

Okay... I've been away for awhile, but I have not forgotten my promise to research this one out as much as possible.

The following covers the rumors regarding:
1) The movies interpretation of the Scouring of the Shire.
and
2) The movies dealings with the demise of Saruman

If you don't want to know about these DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER!!!!

---------------------------

First thing is first:
If you want to see the movie picture that I referred to above of Saruman "splayed out on a spiked wheel", then visit this site and scroll to the bottom (WARNING: this site has MANY TTT movie images. If you don't want it spoiled, just take my word for it.)

http://www.quintessentialwebsites.co...scene3.htm#top

--------------------------------------------

This next site is an article entitled "Quickbeam wraps up the Wizard Kebab" (It is too long to copy in full, but some of the major highlights of the article have been copied below.)

http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/972679815

Who's Spiking Who?
It's official. Saruman dies during The Two Towers in a very unique way, via the magic of Peter Jackson's imagination. We have proof of exactly what was going on in the now notorious photo that appeared in a Wellington newspaper last August. It showed a bedraggled, upended white wizard lanced clean through on a massive spiked wheel. Poor sod.
...
The Call Sheet tells us what they were filming that day, on what set, and the particulars of what the scene required: 'As Saruman turns on the wheel, the Palant'r drops from his hand and into the water.' We have only one conclusion to make: Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh have abandoned the original death found in Tolkien's pages, making up something wholly new. The implication for the films' overall story is not immediately clear, but you can connect the dots with what evidence we have.

My take on it: There will be no Scouring of the Shire in the films.

If PJ decides Saruman will meet his demise in the second film, after the Ents' destruction of Isengard, then we certainly won't have the chain of events found later in the story! There will be no Saruman to infiltrate the Shire and assert control over Lotho and the other hobbits.
...
Perhaps now that the Wizard-kebab has been so widely publicized it will never even end up in the movie. Maybe it was a red-herring all along, meant to drive us batty and increase free publicity for the project.
...

----------------------------------------

http://www.ringfaq.com/story.html

Saruman's cinematic fate may differ from that of the novels. A spy photo taken during filming seems to show Saruman's death on a piece of machinery at the Orthanc set, and some readers have suggested he will fall from the tower after his confrontation with the heros in The Two Towers, instead of perishing in the Shire later on as in the books.

The Scouring of the Shire sequence will not be included in the films, although the Departure for the Gray Havens is in.

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...

[Eowyn of Rohan]

CONTINUED FROM LAST POST...

----------------------------

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=11565

ROTK - BIG SHOCKER – Peter was asked how he plans to deal with the ending of the story…since the SOTS is sort of a downbeat ending how do they plan to deal with that?

PJ: "There won’t be a downbeat ending because it’s not there".

A bit of stunned silence in the room. I find myself still in denial.

Peter goes on to explain how he knows that the SOTS was important to Tolkien, that seeing the English countryside destroyed was a big theme but that they did not plan to end the film this way.

He said that’s why they paid a sort of homage to it in the mirror of Galadriel scene. He also said he found it the most awkward chapter personally. But he stressed that in order to make a film like this of Frodo and The Ring and his journey to Mordor, you "just couldn’t do it".

I called out "yes you can!" but was only heard by those near me.

-------------------------------------------

http://www2.tolkienonline.com/docs/5337.html

((Co-writer's Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, along with co-writer and director Peter Jackson accepted the challenge))

Readers may also object to he omission of the marvelous ‘coda’ with which Tolkien ends The Return of the King, when Frodo returns from his battle with the Dark Lord to find that his beloved bucolic Shire has been taken over by the evil wizard Saruman.

Boyens: “Unfortunately, as wonderful and brilliant as that last chapter is, it’s not something that we believe our film could sustain. You can’t have a huge climax that you main characters have been striving for, for three films, and then start the story up again and play out an episodic ending. An audience sitting in a cinema just wouldn’t go with it.”

-----------------------------

This last statement from Philippa echos my arguments that I posted on another thread (and, I believe, in another forum):
While a wonderful end to the Hobbits adventure and of the 'whatever happened to Saruman and Wormtongue' question, the Scouring of the Shire is NOT the natural climax to the overall story line even though (technically) the last battle of the WOTR takes place in the Shire - The Battle of Bywater).

These last chapters in ROTK are wrap up! Even in reading them, the overall sense of urgency and imminent doom are alleviated because the one ring has now been destroyed. The Hobbits don't even take the threats from the Big Folk seriously upon their return which only echos the sentiments that "there IS no real imminent and complete doom that is going to befall all of ME unless the situation is remedied".

While I will miss it, I don't think the SOTS is necessary to the MOVIE's storyline; however, ... now you have to deal with the Saruman and Wormtongue question.

It seems that they are going to do that by offing them in TTT.
(Purist!! - Please calm down!)

The spiked wheel (which at first I thought was in Hobbiton) seems to be a piece of equipment from Saruman's own Uruk-hai making factory in the fathoms below Orthanc.

This raises tons of questions:
Does he fall in the great debate with Gandalf the White?
Does Wormtongue still end him, perhaps by pushing him from the balcony?
Who now destroys Wormtongue since he won't be shot down by arrows from Hobbits?

Are you ready for THIS next new rumor??

It said that possibly Eowyn will be slaying Wormtongue!!

I would HATE that by the way. (hate hate hate loathe it!!)
If PJ is GOING to do it like this, then Eomer or Theoden should strike him down. Eowyn's battles should be saved for Pelennor, to keep that wonderful element of her surprise.

But I digress...

What do all of you think of this revealed information?

[Nurvingiel]

That would be so wrong! That would totally change what Tolkein intended!

I was overjoyed that the Fellowship of the Ring maintained Tolkein's integrity and intent, even if the Old-Forest part was cut out.

If he does ridiculous things like take out the scouring of the Shire, this integrity will be lost, and I will cry. (Okay, maybe I won't but I'll be choked.)

I heard that PJ wanted to make six movies, but Hollywood nixed that idea.

(He'd do better than Lucas' prequels, I bet, of course, those were ~20 years apart...)

Yargh! I hate and love spoilers all at the same time!

[Nibs]

Eh. We all have differing opinions on what scenes are worth keeping and I don't expect P.J. to adhere to my own... this is kind of a wish list.

Aragorn instructing Hama not to let anyone touch (or, as it seems, even look at) Anduril as he leans it upon Theoen's hall.

Grishnakh, as he sneaks with Merry and Pippin under each arm, trying to escape the ring of Rohirrim, gets shot in the hand with an arrow as he takes out his sword. And then shrieks. And then is slain (Booya! Where's your Nazgúl now, sucka?).

Quickbeam's line: "They have called me that since I answered an elder Ent's question before he finished it."

That's about it for now, although there are so many endearing scenes that I would love to see portrayed visually.

[Nurvingiel]

I think those are great scenes! I hope PJ at least has a few of those on his wish list!


On my wish list, I hope they show that Gimli has a lot of respect for Galadriel, and then have him square off against Eomer about her.

This might not happen...

[Nibs]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
On my wish list, I hope they show that Gimli has a lot of respect for Galadriel, and then have him square off against Eomer about her.

This might not happen...

And then maybe the same subject that comes up in RotK. "You have chosen the evening, but my heart goes with the morning."

[azalea]

I love that line!

As far as Saruman's demise, I think I'll only be happy if it is indeed Wormtongue who pushes him -- and really, why wouldn't it be? I would be CRUSHED if it were the ents. Who knows how they'll do Wormtongue? Maybe an orc gets him.

[Nurvingiel]

I hope PJ maintains Tolkein's intent in TTT the same way he did in FOTR. Overall, it was awesome.

Compared to the book, movie-Gimli was one-dimensional and boring. Since Gimli is important and kick-ass, I hope PJ makes it up in TTT.

[Lollypopgurl]

EEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYTTTHI IIIIIINGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PUT EVERYTHING IN THERE!!! Peter Jackson! If you are reading this, gather the cast and make whatever shots you haven't yet that are in the book!!!

Oh yeah, if you need some countryside with lots of grass for Rohan, come to Texas. Preferably in Dallas.