The World Trade Center and Pentagon Collapsed due to terrorist attack

[Lief Erikson]

juntel, olorin, that was not called for.

Okay. If that was a question about the nuclear bombs and not a statement, then the answer to the question is No. Sorry for misunderstanding you if you really aren't against Arabs in general. Concentrating more on them is up to the Intelligence and FBI. If it helps protect aircraft because they're more likely to do these sorts of things, that's up to them.
When you said this, however,

Don't allow groups of Arab men on a plane.

If they aren't on the plane they can't hi-jack it.

How difficult is this to grasp?

We are doing it now. In Newark,at Kennedy,la Guardia,Ft. Worth,and Miami. Arab men have been arrested bearing forged paperwork,stolen uniforms and weapons of the sort used to hi-
jack the first four planes.

the example is off topic. They did allow them on the plane. Only when they discovered what they really were did they come after them. What we're saying is that you don't go after all Arabs everywhere. Apparently you don't think we should either, so perhaps all of our examples are also off topic.

Although refusing to allow Arab men onto a plane might be one answer, it simply isn't the correct one. There is a line which has to be drawn between civil liberties and security, and doing this would be stepping too far. It would lead to other things. That car bomb you reported, how can you stop everything involving terrorism? Doing that would abolish the rights we hold so dear to every Arab or Palestinian in the country. Legal or illegal. And although it certainly appears to be Bin Laden (I think it is) it can't be certain. There is no proof as yet; if we concentrate too much on Arabs, wouldn't it be a surprise if white men bearing knives hijacked a plane and did the same thing.

I like the new idea of having an agent on each plane until this is over, though. That's something I heard on the news, did you hear it? The new flight security measures are pretty good to.

Thanks for all these updates on what's going on out there. Although they hardly help support what you've been saying, some of them are interesting. We've had the news on through all daylight ours, but I didn't know about the carbomb caught. The story about the raid on the plane I did hear about, though.

[Darth Tater]

The extremists who commited these acts are a small minority of arabs and muslims. They in no way represent the views of all members of that race and that faith. Achoo, you sicken me beyond belief.

[Finmandos12]

I am not justifying these attacks, but maybe they were a punishment from God. Our gov't has insulted Him in the very highest ways: Supreme Court says God can't be mentioned in schools, milions of babies have been killed by abortion, etc. I am not advocating a gov't sponsored religion, but when we don't follow him, he withdraws his protection. May this be a warning that the gov't and military is no subsitute for God's protection.

[Darth Tater]

Finmandos, don't think that, not for a second. God had nothing to do with this, it was the work of satan.

[Fat middle]

just adding my condolences i'm very sorry and praying for the victims and their families.

[juntel]

Lief, that simple minded racist that is AACHOO did ask for it.

"How can it be labelled as 'Racsist' to focus on groups of Arab men if they continue to attempt to kill Americans?"

It has to be labelled racist, since your above quote implies that any arab group is indeed a group of terrorist: "they continue to attempt to kill americans", where "they" refers to "groups of Arab men", any group of arab men...
You didn't say "terrorist group of arab men", you implies that any group of arab men "continue to attempt to kill Americans"

These are your own words, clearly written: you want to focus on groups of arab men because, in your words, they continue to attempt to kill americans.

When will you get inside your pea-brain that these terrorists are marginals inside the muslim world???

Let go of your idiotic racism. It's just not healthy.

[adanedhel]

But yesterday Usamah bin Laden issued a statement denying that he did it. I think a fearless man such as he would not be afraid to claim responsibility, surely? It doesn't mesh with what we know about zealot groups. If he really did it, he would admit it, I think.

I almost can't write this, this is unbelievable. First, bin Laden has never claimed responsibility for anything, always saying that he cannot take responsibility, but that he applauds the actions. Second, if he is such a "fearless man" why is not at the forefront of any of his attacks? Why does he hide in the mountains of Afghanistan? Why does he sleep in a different location each night?

I have one problem with the statement (probably true) that most Muslims are not of like mind with bin Laden and his ilk. How does one know which of the few are until they are flying a plane into a skyscraper or setting off a chemical weapon in some major city? Tell me you would be so swift to forgive and turn the other cheek if it was your parents, siblings, or children who died in this COWARDLY attack. Fearless my as*!!

[Mathron]

AACHOO:

In the past, white american's have made terrorist attempts. Should, thus, no white americans be allowed in state buildings?

Yes, since some Arabs are terrorists, preventing any on airlines could ensure safety. It would also be, effectively, reducing Arabs to second class citizens, denied of some rights. Punishing the many for the actions of a few. If you follow those ideals to the extreme, you find that the logical conclusion is that, to ensure no more Arabian Terrorist activity, we must eliminate the Arabian race. Would this not solve the problems as effectively? Yes, but it is highly immoral.

So, answer me this question, in your own words, without quoting more useless articles:

Do you believe we have the right to eliminate the personal rights of Arabs and violate the constitution based on the actions of a few?

[adanedhel]

I agree, any measure that takes away rights of ANY member in this country is wrong. It is time for stricter security measures in airports. It is also time for non-extremest Muslim groups to prove to the rest of the world that they truly abhor these terrorist attacks. Cooperate with us to punish those responsible for ALL terrorist attacks. (This goes for groups such as the IRA as well).

It is time for Arabs in general and Muslims in particular to identify those that they know to be involved in terrorist groups. That would go a long way I think towards healing the strained relations between us. I should have added this to my previous statement, but I was a little angry regarding the "fearless man" comment that I quoted regarding bin Laden to formulate a complete statement.

And before we go too far in singling out Arabs, remember Oklahoma City....the first thought that came to everyone's minds immediately following the bombing was ARAB TERRORISTS!!..oops.

[Sister Golden Hair]

first off, just let me say that no one wants war, and the loss of innocents is always sad. Unfortunately it is not avoidable when war is afoot. Secondly. I would like to point out that one of the dead people found in one of the planes in the WTC debri was an Arab, in the cockpit, so I think there is some partial proof there. As for this issue of racism, I think the U.S. is at a sensative point in this investigation, and stopping Arab men and detaining them, is hardly an accusation, but more of a precaution at this point, and the only reason this is being done and the focus is on this race is for the very reason that these terrorists were of their kind. This is policy even in small scale law. If someone perpetrates a crime and there is a description to be followed then law inforcement stops and detains anyone matching that description, until they have the perpetrator. This is temporary, and standard proceedure. I think some are blowing Achoo's remarks out of proportion. I read someone quote Patrick Henry on another forum:"I dsagree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it."

Now, as for Bin-laden, it has not been proven 100% that he is behind this. However, the M.O. matches him, and has his signature. Afghanistan has in the past harbored him in other terroristic acts. If it does turn out to be him and Afghanistan does not turn him over to American authorities or aids him in anyway then they have made a choice to endanger their own people. The U.S. should take steps to hold Afghanistan just as responsible. At least if the U.S. attacks them, their innocents will be, and already are forwarned that it is coming. That is more then the people in the WTC got on Tuesday. And condem me if you will for this, but even if Bin-laden is not involved he is still what he is and he is also probably the richest and most well organized and capable terrorist to be able to carry out these attacks. I think the U.S. would be doing itself and the rest of the world a favor by getting rid of him. This would weaken the terroist network greatly.

Please do not bring up the issues of abortion and prayer in schools. It really has no baring. If you are familliar with the constitution then you know church and state are seperate. This is off topic.

[ladyisme]

Condolences for the familys of those lost. I just wanted to express my shock about all that has happened and I wish that I could be writting under happier circumstances.

P.S. Let us all hope and pray that more survivors are found in NY.

[Finmandos12]

Tater, I didn't mean God did this, I mean he ALLOWED it to happen. He allowed Satan to do this.

Many times throughout history, when a nation disregards God, he allows bad things to happen to them. (Ancient Israel is the main exampl) He doesn't cause this, he allows it to happen.

This is not any way justifying the terrorist's actions.

[juntel]

"I think the U.S. is at a sensative point in this investigation, and stopping Arab men and detaining them, is hardly an accusation, but more of a precaution at this point"

This is agreable, but only to a point. They do not stop arab men and detain them outrightly: they arrest those on whom they have a lead; and at airports, they check passports, papers, baggages of everyone, not only arabic/non-white men or women.
Those that have been arrested are those whose papers were not reglementary and suspicious.

Up to now, american justice has been clean in this investigation, and didn't follow blind racist attitude as the one exhibited by aachoo.

Detain those who are suspected. But if you suspect them only because they are arabs, then you're not simply being precautious. To equate arab = terrorist is simply racist.
One should rather equate 'arab (or any other person searched) with suspicious passports, papers, documents, baggage' with 'possible threat, to be detained for investigation'.

That's my opinion.

[samwise of the shire]

Great answer Finmandos Tater it may have been the work of Satan but as Finmandos said God allowed it to happen and he KNEW when and why it was going to happen.
Aachoo I think your basis for saying Arabs should'nt be allowed on planes is sick, my Mom dated Arabs and they imigrated to the US because they HATE their leaders, they came to America to be FREE and they did'nt hold a knife to my Moms neck or anybody elses, so your racist S... is totally off the wall. What does everyone think about the new protections on planes?
I dont quite like the new protections on planes, the unlawful will ALWAYS find away to make their point or break the law and with unarmed passengers and with enough of them it should'nt be too hard to overcome the marshalls, and hijackers main weapon is fear,if they get enough people to beleive they have weapons that can kill or bombs or something then the plane goes where ever they want it, we've had more FREEDOM taken away by this BS that went on then having the hijacking insidents lowered,maybe for a year or two but the lawless will always find a loophole of some sorts and crawl through. Even if it dont happen I dont think I'll get on a plane for awhile. I'll just take the bus.
Sam

[Mathron]

Honestly, the new measures sound, so far, pretty well and effective. I would give up a little time and be a little more hassled in order to have a safe plane ride - and to assume that nothing we do will ever work is tantamount to giving up.

In addition - I second the request that religion is not brought into this discussion. It could easily lead to an even more heated discussion than currently is going, as well as being potentially hurtful to those who have suffered from this incident. (Although, if you truly wish to pursue it, feel free to send me a private message to discuss it.)

[juntel]

Words of wisdom from Florida (by Leonard Pitts Jr., syndicated journalist):


We'll go forward from this moment
(Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001)

Hatred is unworthy of us
(Published Thursday, September 13, 2001)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by juntel
"I think the U.S. is at a sensative point in this investigation, and stopping Arab men and detaining them, is hardly an accusation, but more of a precaution at this point"

This is agreable, but only to a point. They do not stop arab men and detain them outrightly: they arrest those on whom they have a lead; and at airports, they check passports, papers, baggages of everyone, not only arabic/non-white men or women.
Those that have been arrested are those whose papers were not reglementary and suspicious.

Up to now, american justice has been clean in this investigation, and didn't follow blind racist attitude as the one exhibited by aachoo.

Detain those who are suspected. But if you suspect them only because they are arabs, then you're not simply being precautious. To equate arab = terrorist is simply racist.
One should rather equate 'arab (or any other person searched) with suspicious passports, papers, documents, baggage' with 'possible threat, to be detained for investigation'.

That's my opinion.

You know, I hear alot of criticism here as to how the U.S. is handeling this. This is easy to do when it is not left up to you, and when the burdon of the security of this nation does not rest on your shoulders. Tell me what you people would do at this point in time, fresh off of a terrorist attack with the posiblity of other attacks looming still? How would you avoid this descrimination, and still catch these perpatrators without sacrificing the security of the public? Do you have a better way? Then out with it.

[juntel]

As I said, your present government doesn't go the way of blind hatred.
They don't arrest people just because they are arabic-looking.
I have quoted you to underline this.
Your Government is doing it right, and I've not criticized its actions.


From my first post in this thread, and up to now, I have been criticising aachoo's view specifically, evidently.
And since that first post, i've clearly stated that I see the us govt going in a direction far removed from aachoo's ideas, something which I applaud.

Read again.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by juntel
As I said, your present government doesn't go the way of blind hatred.
They don't arrest people just because they are arabic-looking.
I have quoted you to underline this.
Your Government is doing it right, and I've not criticized its actions.


From my first post in this thread, and up to now, I have been criticising aachoo's view specifically, evidently.
And since that first post, i've clearly stated that I see the us govt going in a direction far removed from aachoo's ideas, something which I applaud.

Read again.

As I said before, I do not necessarily agree with Achoo's methods, but I do understand the U.S. having to single out Arabic people at this time. My post was not meant to target you alone, but to ask all posters how they would deal with this if it were up to them. Sorry if I relayed this wrong. It was not meant to criticise or demeen any other opinion, but to give everyone the chance to stand in the shoes of the President for just a moment.

[Finmandos12]

What do you want, Mathron, separation of church and ents?