03-18-2005, 09:02 PM | #61 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I don't think that gay marriage should be forced on any state, just like I don't think that a same-sex marriage ban should be part of the constitution. I think that each state should define what is right for themselves and I think that their decision should not be forced on any other state. I also think that it should be a LEGISLATIVE decision not a JUDICIAL decision. Judges do NOT make law - they enforce laws.
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03-18-2005, 09:05 PM | #62 |
The Intermittent One
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i cant speak for britain, i am not in government, as may be noticed
and a judges role is to interpret law, a policeman's role is to enforce law, or at least that is as it is in britain |
03-18-2005, 09:14 PM | #63 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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03-18-2005, 09:19 PM | #64 | ||
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the topics over there >>>> perhaps i ought to get back on to it...? |
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03-18-2005, 09:34 PM | #65 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-18-2005 at 09:35 PM. |
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03-18-2005, 09:36 PM | #66 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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03-18-2005, 09:54 PM | #67 | ||
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Hey, lots of Americans talk about "the government" when they're really talking about "the administration". No wonder it took me so long to get it.
I think for the purpose of discussion we can say that the Canadian government, the British government, and the American administration are equivelant governing bodies.
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03-18-2005, 11:06 PM | #68 | ||
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03-19-2005, 09:44 AM | #69 | |
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What is this marriage "institute" you speak of? You can no more establish the "reason for marriage" as you can the reason for having kids. And it is completely irrelevant to the discusion of modern day marriage anyway. There is no single reason for marriage. And anyway why in the world would i not like your fake reason for "inventing" marriage exactly?
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03-19-2005, 11:31 AM | #70 | |||
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Well, having and raising children is a perfectly good reason to get married. It is one reason many people to get married and has been for a long time. However, a couple usually has more than one reason to get married. I think I posted a list of ideas in the other marriage thread.
Societies in the past and today have a variety of reasons for marriage including (but definitely not limited to)...
Personally, when I get married (and I have someone in mind ), the reasons, in order, will be: love, create an environment to produce and raise a family, and economic alliance. (The last two are highly intertwined.) I fail see why two men or two women getting married would disrupt the social order of Western society. Quote:
Further, of course there are differences between men and women. There are observeable physical differences between men and women, but this is such a minutely small part of our overall being that I don't see why this should be a requirement for marriage. I would absolutely abhor living in a society where physical differences made the pre-requisite for marriage. As for the ability and/or desire to have children as a pre-requisite, I agree with you that this is irrelevant. However, what were the amazing and wild differences then? I'll let you respond before I go on with this line of reasoning. As for non-physical differences, men and women are not that different. I am as different from a random woman as I am from a random man. And how could we possibly legistlate that? Don't forget that I'm talking about legal, government-sanctioned marriages here. I think churches can define and preform religious marriage in whichever way their faiths dictate. With respect to marriage laws, I strongly oppose one group of people gaining more priveldges than another group based on sexual orientation.
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03-19-2005, 11:45 AM | #71 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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03-19-2005, 05:13 PM | #72 | |
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You do realize that a lot of sociologists and anthropologists would disagree with your limited assesment regarding marriage. And be able to back it up with reams of evidence showing it wasnt simply "invented" to have kids. Specifically the countless cultures in which the raising of children is not simply relegated to the parents (like it is here with less and less success I might add) but to the immediate community at large. And you do realize also that your point is completely irrelevant to my point of
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03-19-2005, 05:32 PM | #73 |
The Intermittent One
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the only people i know of that would agree that marriage exists to create children would of course be functionalists, such as talcott parsons,
"The family is the primary socialisation process, giving children society's norms and values" most sociologists have varying views on marriage and the family, for marxists the family is an ISA, designed to perpetuate the hierachial class system through subservience and deference, just my 2 pence worth on the matter (Speaking as an A Grade a-level sociology student) |
03-19-2005, 05:39 PM | #74 | |
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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03-19-2005, 10:01 PM | #75 | ||
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Now let's say I have a family. My kids are going to be growing up in an environment where these marriages are called the same thing as mine. Society in general will be against my view. It would be very hard to give my children a traditional Christian upbringing while we are in such an environment. Furthermore, in my view there are risks of this marriage-alterring going even further. Society may say that three men can marry one woman, or that three men can marry a donkey. It would be very tough for me to shield my children from views thrown at them by society, views that marriage isn't something beautiful and God-created but is a term tossed around for a hundred things. So upbringing for children is a major issue. But there also is the issue that it would be simply painful to live in a society where these . . . other kinds of relationships are called equal with my own bond with my wife. Marriage is such a precious and infinitely important institution that living in a society where it is worth dirt (homosexuality wouldn't likely be the end of the redefining process) would be a tragedy both to me and my marriage partner. Even if it is just homosexuality though, it still would to me be a sad thing to have these weaker kinds of relationships be called equivalent to heterosexual marriage. I know you have noted that I call them weaker. I believe that they are weaker. Inked has brought up statistics already that most men do not stay in relationships with other men over the long term. Also, both male and female homosexual couples do tend to be more promiscuous. I know that has not been your experience with the homosexuals you know. It has been mine. And all you have to do is look at the Gay Pride rallies to see it. When I was looking at BBC articles on the subject, the pictures showed them dressed like prostitutes and transvestites. Quote:
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03-20-2005, 01:12 AM | #76 |
AngAdan
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It is no skin off my back if homosexual couple get both the benefits and the title of marriage.
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03-20-2005, 01:47 AM | #77 |
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I think homosexuals should have every right to the benefits of marriage after all, according to the Declaration of Independence "all Men are created equal." Its a bit contradicting, even though the U.S. is "one nation under God" , the governemnt should still keep state power and religion seperate.
Last edited by Ragnarok : 03-20-2005 at 02:14 AM. |
03-20-2005, 02:01 AM | #78 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-20-2005, 02:13 AM | #79 |
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Yea, I made a mistake and mixed up the two, but thank you for thoroughly clarifying that mistake instead of responding to my thought on the matter. Next time a simple "no, your wrong its not that... it is this" would be greatly appreciated.
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03-20-2005, 02:16 AM | #80 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-20-2005 at 02:23 AM. |
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