04-15-2006, 12:36 PM | #61 | |||
Elf Lord
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There are many Christians who object strongly to Bush's policies . Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-15-2006, 12:47 PM | #62 | |||
Hobbit
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04-15-2006, 01:06 PM | #63 | |||
Elf Lord
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You are making terrible accusations against all or most Christians. Which is interesting for me to observe, I guess . Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-15-2006 at 01:17 PM. |
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04-15-2006, 01:40 PM | #64 | |||
Hobbit
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Your also the only person to mention the correlation between filling the pulpits and making money.... aren't collection plates used these days? isn't donating money to the church a voluntary action? It seems you, as a christian, have very strong feelings about Bush's policies on certain issues........ but I guess that is a subject for another thread, i'm remarking on how christianity is portrayed in the modern media....and how christians conduct themselves. You seem to be the one intent on villifying christians as a whole..... i didn't attack anyone's indidvidual's beliefs...... maybe all christians are "greedy mindless terrorists" I don't know. If you come to that conclusion from my posts, and the acts of the president of USAmerica we all see in the media, well...... i shudder to think how christians come accross to non-conforming world at large. Quote:
I'll ask again..... as a christian, do you, Lief, think Bush is acting directly in accordance to the will of God?.... I'd like to hear a Christians honest opinion Quote:
"he could just go to a different one" gives personal religious conviction seem as superficial as chooseing between chocolate bars at the K-mart shelf.... You talk as if a person finds a church to suit their own needs.... i can almost hear the souls of thousands of christian matyrs screaming in rage |
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04-15-2006, 01:56 PM | #65 | ||
Elven Warrior
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04-15-2006, 01:58 PM | #66 | |
Elven Warrior
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04-15-2006, 02:20 PM | #67 | ||
Hobbit
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Last edited by Oz! : 04-15-2006 at 02:25 PM. |
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04-15-2006, 02:24 PM | #68 | |
Hobbit
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04-15-2006, 02:45 PM | #69 |
Elven Warrior
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Lief, you keep arguing that the scriptures and historical origin of Islam show it to be a religion more based on violence than Christianity or, say, Buddhism, and I agree with you their (But how about Judaism? Nothing in the Koran equals the bloodiness inflicted on the Canaanites and Midianites, among others.)
The test is, though, by their fruits shall ye know them. As you yourself have shown, throughout most of its history Christianity has been used to endorse violence. From the time Christians first became widespread they have fought both each other and outsiders in the name of the Prince of Peace. From the early heresy conflicts where various factions slaughtered far more of each other than the Romans ever did, to the Wars of Religion - taking in the Crusades, Teutonic Knights, Inquisition, Albigensians, etc along the way- I'd say Christendom could hold its own with Islam in terms of violence. So what happened? Basically, the Enlightenment- religion became much less important in public life. Thomas Jefferson's comment that "I care not whether my neighbor has one God or twenty- it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket" would have been blasphemy 150 years earlier. Unfortunately, the Devil finding work for idle hands, the Enlightenment , through the French Revolution on down to Communism and its reaction Fascism, found a new source of intolerance based on political ideology. (Fukuyama's "The End of History" actually should have been titled "The End of Ideology"- a lot less catchy.) Islam's problem is that, through most of its sphere, it has not been driven from the public square. Kemal Attaturk did it fairly successfully in Turkey. His imitators in the Arab world - Nasser, Assad, Saddam- were less able- their secular pan-Arab nationalism broke down in failure to deliver either prosperity or power (i.e. regularly getting their butt whipped by Israel). In those places where Islam was spread by the word rather than the sword-Malaysia and Indonesia- it was generally more tolerant. In Indonesia (the most populous Muslim state) there has been some radicalizing based on a combination of economic and political stability and a flood of Saudi money-as all through the Sunni Muslim world- spreading their particularly fanatical brand of Wahabbism. |
04-15-2006, 02:58 PM | #70 | ||
Elven Warrior
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04-15-2006, 03:03 PM | #71 | ||||
Elf Lord
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I'll respond to the rest of your post and to Oz's posts soon.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-15-2006, 03:08 PM | #72 | |
Hobbit
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Does anyone know which church Bush actually belongs to.... it's a given that most chirstians in the west actively agree that he is doing the will of God, but i'd be facinated to talk to someone who belongs to his church.... I have to leave for a while (again) ..... but think on this.... if you're a christian who thinks they have a full view of the Muslim culture.... spare a thought about how people from other cultures and ( as we see from Lief's posts today) .... how you yourselves see yourselves as christians... it'll do ya soul good |
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04-15-2006, 03:32 PM | #73 |
the Shrike
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Isn't GWB an Evangelist?
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
04-15-2006, 05:16 PM | #74 | |
Elf Lord
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I think so, BoP. Evangelical , not evangelist, of course.
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I don't really think driving Islam out of power is the answer, though it would probably help. Many modern terrorists didn't begin their terrorism because of governments, you know. I'm thinking specifically of the insurgency in Iraq, the terrorism against Israel and the birth of al'Qaeda. Oz, I'm just going to respond to you over PM.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-15-2006 at 05:20 PM. |
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04-15-2006, 07:05 PM | #75 | |
Hobbit
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Regards (Coney) |
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04-15-2006, 09:27 PM | #76 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-15-2006, 09:34 PM | #77 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-15-2006, 11:17 PM | #78 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-15-2006, 11:24 PM | #79 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-16-2006, 09:35 AM | #80 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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You believe one view is right and the others are wrong. I believe all views are right, or at least can be.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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