08-12-2004, 01:20 PM | #61 | |
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08-12-2004, 01:33 PM | #62 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-12-2004, 01:42 PM | #63 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-12-2004, 01:46 PM | #64 | |||
Advocatus Diaboli
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i don't think it is inconceivable that an 'animal' like one of today's chimps could evolve in a way over the next 10,000 or 100,000 years to approach the level of intelligence that we enjoy today... and when i say gradation, i mean the time in between, where such a chimp might be smarter than any we see today, but far from debating philosophy... humans themselves were once at this point... and were in fact at this point for a long long time a few hundred years ago many saw the tribal cultures of africa as 'animals'... they were seen as incapable of achieving the level of intelligence the western world enjoyed... though most would say that this was an incorrect assessment people have a tendency to enjoy classifying themselves as 'special' and 'different'... many times for justification of actions (or morals )... you even see this between different groups of humans... it is hard to be as thoughless of other animals who are seen as close to us, or more like us... so we come up with lines in development that may not actually exist... just think of how differently you might react to a friend's dog, as compared to a wolf in the wild, who are both fairly similar on the intelligence scale Quote:
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08-12-2004, 02:02 PM | #65 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 08-12-2004 at 02:04 PM. |
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08-12-2004, 04:47 PM | #66 | |
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"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page |
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08-12-2004, 08:06 PM | #67 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-12-2004, 08:48 PM | #68 |
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Why would it be threatening to be super duper special? Seems the safest way to play it.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
08-12-2004, 09:50 PM | #69 | |
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The mind is very complex. There are several different schools of thought with different theories; Behaviorism, Cognitivism, Functionalism, Gestalt psychology, Humanistic psychology, Psychoanalysis, Structuralism. All of them make some valid points. |
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08-13-2004, 01:12 AM | #70 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-13-2004, 09:58 AM | #71 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-13-2004, 10:04 AM | #72 |
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me too.
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08-13-2004, 03:07 PM | #73 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Good grief - am I the only one willing to analyze and discuss and support an opinion?
I look at all my long posts, and think "this is unbalanced!", and I try to get others to add their thoughts (I know you have them!), and I get 2 sentences from 2 people with a total of 9 words Should I just shut up and add 3 words of my own ("I disagree with IRex") (whoops, 4 words), or should I explain my thoughts more thoroughly, and hope that I learn and that others learn in the process? (or at the very least we at least get to know each other better). I was really hoping for more from other people ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-13-2004, 03:18 PM | #74 |
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Well I already know you disagree rian. thats why i asked the question. because it seems to me (and others i guess) that being special is a better deal then just being out there and naked in nature. so it seemed counter to immediate logic. so i was looking for you to explain why it seemed the other way around to you. thats all.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 08-13-2004 at 03:22 PM. |
08-13-2004, 03:47 PM | #75 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-13-2004, 05:26 PM | #76 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'm sorry, guys, I just got grumpy, I guess.
Someone just PM me and tell me to shut up if I talk too much... Brownie, where's post number 64? (or is that a joke?) Oh wait *examines thread* - hey, that's sure handy! There's a post number on each post! Cool! The Vbulletin change was a shock at first, but now I like it. Let me see if I can explain what I mean, IRex: There's a line somewhere that I think is pretty profound. I think it's by C.S. Lewis, but I can't find it right now. It goes something like "there are no ordinary people ... aha! I just found it, and it's longer than I realized, so I'll start a new post.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-13-2004, 05:44 PM | #77 | |
Mootis per forum
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
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08-13-2004, 05:44 PM | #78 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Here's an explanation why I think your view (that it's "safer" to think people are "super duper special" ) is wrong, and the opposite view is the correct one:
Quote:
OTOH, if humans are just accidental products of a mindless process, and "mere" animals, then it's easy to excuse our own wrong behavior - after all, when we act in a brutish way, we just had a little slip back to a previous evolutionary stage, right? And the one we just harmed to get ourselves ahead is just an animal like us, right? So it's no big deal. And survival of the fittest has gotten us to where we are now, right? So if I can get an advantage over someone because I'm stronger, then go me! And when I die, I'll just go back to dust, and there's no long-term consequences to stealing from my friend, right? And if I want some more money to enjoy myself before I turn into dust, then there's certainly nothing wrong with helping my old dad out the door a little early, right? After all, he's in pain, and he only THINKS he wants to still live. I know better - and after all, once he's dead, he'll never know anything, right? And there's no God that grieves over when I do wrong, and is joyful when I do right, so why bother to strive to do what's right and beautiful, and grieve over sin, right? After all, it's just instinct that made me save my own skin at the expense of that child that I could have helped, right? And no one knew that I SAW that car coming and that the child was walking out into the street - everyone thought I DIDN'T see it coming, and COULDN'T have done anything to stop it, when in fact, I DID see it and COULD have done something ... good thing no one can see into my heart ... good thing I'm just another animal, and can't help my actions, and even if I could, there's no eternal consequences ... Yet my heart keeps haunting me and telling me I could be wrong ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-13-2004 at 05:48 PM. |
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08-13-2004, 08:36 PM | #79 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-14-2004, 01:11 AM | #80 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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it's not about humans being 'mere' animals... it's about animals not being 'mere' animals... and i think this may be the scary part... the idea that animals may have feelings and thought processes that we only attribute to fellow humans anyone who studies nature knows that animals are much less likely to engage in activity that harms their overall society than humans are... makes you wonder about the advantage of intelligence over instinct... at least when one talks morals
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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