Bush addresses the world- Pending War

[BeardofPants]

Woah! I forgot music!! America has some of the best music ever... besides the Brit Invasion. Bob Dylan, The Doors, Neil Young, Frank Sinatra, Aretha Franklin....

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Lizra
Well, thank you for that informative post BoP. I really like it when people "get real" like that. Now I think I can "relate" to you better.

Yeah, what she said.

EDIT: Pfft, Medieval Europe had the best music.

[BeardofPants]

Yeah, whatever.

Also: I've always liked my American lecturers more than my NZ counterparts. Why? Because NZers have this terrible tendency to mumble (), whereas American's have a nice clear accent (well, mid-westerners anyway.) (Too bad they always manage to natter me into LaLa land. )

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Well, if we're talking accents, British all the way! We mid-westerners have boring accents. And everyone else in America is incomrpehensible! I love British accents, as well as Scottish and Irish. Especially love the crisp, cultured English accents.

[BeardofPants]

Well, since we're already OT, and this is the multicultural love thread... I like *some* British accents. But you ain't lived, until you've had a flatmate from Luton. WORST Brit accent in the world. Heck, I'll even go so far as to say that it's the worst accent in the world. I really like it how clear the mid-west accent is. Such a change from the Australasian twangy whine. A-E has a dead sexy accent.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Now, now, that's not fair at all. I associate with people who are against America the War (and America; two of my top ten favorite Mooters are two who very well fit my definition of anti-American). She could easily be friends with someone who is pro-war.

I'm friends with some people who are against the war too. Don't discuss it with them very often. We have very strong diagreements on things.

BoP - you know that we used to talk. We even talked during the "anti-american" threads. People here may not believe it - but I thought we had very good conversations and actually got along. I am trying to now give you the benefit of the doubt on you posting that thing. I appreciate the sincere nature of it (EDIT sincere nature of the explanation after the article) - but you really should consider what you are posting and ask yourself - "Is this just propaganda against the US?" What you post may support your views - but it does NOT mean that it is accurate or unbiased.

You may hate Bush and that's fine. He's OUR president whether you like it or not though. You say you support the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and you're glad he's eliminated. You say you wish that the UN weapons inspectors were given more time. How much time would be too much? There was no end in sight to the endless diplomacy. Would you have taken to the streets in outrage to the thousands being killed by him during this time? Have you taken to the streets in outrage to the massacre that recently happened in Congo just a few hours after a cease hostilities was agreed to?

Also - why is Bush an idiot or his administration? It seems like so far he has done an EXCELLENT job. He might have pissed off some world leaders - but sometimes you have to take a hard stand and not back down. It was about time we had a leader again who actually had a backbone.

Contrary to eveyone's view that we were getting bogged down and it was turning into "Vietnam" - Baghdad fell within 3 weeks of the start of the war. The people of Iraq are free of that brutal regime, now, soon, we'll be able to start the rebuilding effort. I don't think that is too bad.

Bush has gone through a lot more than any president in a very long time. Terrorist attacks, space shuttle disaster, war. He has succeeded through a lot and I think if everything that he says is successfully carried out - he will go down as one of America's great presidents (even if he isn't good at public speaking). It might interest you to know that public speaking is not a requirement for being considered a great president - both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were not good at public speaking.

George Bush will be judged on one thing by history - if the Middle East becomes a safer and freer place through his policies. That is yet to be written - but this is a good starting point. Chances are - if Osama Bin Ladin never attacked the Twin Towers or America in general - we would not be having this conversation at all. Osama Bin Ladin got America's proactive stance in the Middle East going. It is in America's self interest to make the Middle East a freer and more democractic region. That is the only way to destroy terrorism, by bringing a better life to the people of the Middle East. Contrary to that article - America is not at war with the people of the Middle East - we are at war with the regimes who support terrorism. This is a war I might add that Osama Bin Ladin declared on us and has repeatedly called on the people of the Middle East to take up. We will not sit by and wait to be hit like 9/11 or even worse with chemical/biological weapons again. We will stop terrorism at it 's root - and that is the lack of freedom of people in the Arab world.

[jerseydevil]

I see a bunch of stuff has been posted while I was typing that post. I see this has become the "love-fest" thread.

And why mid-western accents? I lived in Indiana - most midwesterners have a southern accent (no offense khamul. ) New Jersey - except for the northern area around NY, have a dictionary accent (proper American pronunciation). The west coast also doesn't really have an accent either.

[markedel]

I guess the political shouting died donw but here are my two cents-opposing U.S foreign politcy is not anti-American. Calling the U.S an evil imperialist racist state, and the Bush administration a fascist regime is anti-American.

Why?

Because neither is based on the facts and don't criticize policy. The U.S has done some pretty terrible things in its past-but it's existence is not based on doing terrible things, unlike say Iraq, China, or North Korea, all of whom are pretty honest in their aims and aspirations.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by markedel
I guess the political shouting died donw but here are my two cents-opposing U.S foreign politcy is not anti-American. Calling the U.S an evil imperialist racist state, and the Bush administration a fascist regime is anti-American.

Why?

Because neither is based on the facts and don't criticize policy. The U.S has done some pretty terrible things in its past-but it's existence is not based on doing terrible things, unlike say Iraq, China, or North Korea, all of whom are pretty honest in their aims and aspirations.

Thinking that the US does nothing right in it's foreign policy - is anti-American though. Carrying pictures of George Bush dressed as Hitler - when TRUE atrocities are going on in the world is anti-American. Parliament members who say "I hate Americans. Those bastards" (don't have the exact quote - but those were the words used) - that was said by a Canadian politician when she thought the reporters microphone was out of range- is anti-Americanism.

[Starr Polish]

The midwestern accent, particulary Iowa and Illinois, is usually the accent national news broadcasters are trained in. Most easily understood, even by those with heavy southern accents.

Minnesotans, however...

::jumps away before getting swatted for being OT::

[Lief Erikson]

I know that our country has made a lot of mistakes in the past, and our leadership has sometimes been poor. But I really honestly think that if you look at the record, America has done far more for the world than any other nation ever has, even though we're the newbie in the forum compared to European and some other nations. We have given so much aid to other countries, often out of pure good heart, without political strings attached. We have gone out of our way to grant vast amounts of economical support to countries that we have defeated in war. That article says that we're trying for world domination . . . How ridiculous! We were provoked into attacking Japan and Germany, and after we defeated those countries we let them off easy. And not only easy. Rather than doing the traditional thing and making reparation demands, we gave huge amounts of economic support to tohse countries. And those aren't the only ones, there's also Afghanistan.

America has let people know what the figures are that Iraq has given for the numbers of civilian casualties, so that article's saying that "no wonder Tony Blair is so mad at Al'Jazeera" is compeltely unfounded. Al'Jazeera has misled many people. It once showed a clip of one Iraqi prisoner and said in a caption beneath "Is this thousands?" Because Al'Jazeera releases misleading things like this and painting the war as a horrible bloody invasion of infidels, I think Americans and British, and everyone who is pro-war has a good reason to be angry at them.

There are logical reasons for their doing this. The populations already have a bias against America because of its role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and because of its "heathen" culture, among other things. Perhaps heathen is too strong a word in some cases, but there's no doubt that the bias has been there. And the different news medias didn't want to be thought of as tampering with the evidence, which it would be thought they were doing if they printed the truth. As a consequence, they've been almost competing with each other to paint America in the worst light it can.

That article stated or implied that the American soldiers are butchers, something that is totally against the facts. We've done everything in our power to keep civilian casualties from happening, and we've done an incredible job at minimizing casualties all around. A really, really incredible job, when you look at the casualties of all previous historical wars of such scale. Afghanistan is the only comparable war to this one, in which we used precision technology in this kind of a way.

So anyway, because of the blatant breakings of truth in that article, it is safe to state that the article is propoganda. Or, if that is too strong a word, I can at least say with the support of international news coverage that it includes lies.

In view of the fact that it includes multiple lies, I have a question, BeardofPants. Why did you post it here?

Note that I'm not bringing up the question again of whether you're not anti-American. It's just that that article contains things that are obviously totally off, so I'm a little, uh, as to why you posted it.

[Lief Erikson]

I actually like all accents on the English language that I've heard so far, so long as they're comprehensible, and with one exception. I don't like the midwestern southern accent. The accent Texans have, I really don't like it except in Western movies. French, British, Russian, German, Australian . . . I like all the accents on English except that one.

[Millane]

i watched some race to be first on the moon documentary today and id be too scared to mention Hitler and Bush in the same sentence. all the people in america that died of "natural" causes has made me paranoid...
i hate that English accent by the russians and its all thanks to Dolph Lungren. not only is he a complete wanker but you cant understand anything he says

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
I actually like all accents on the English language that I've heard so far, so long as they're comprehensible, and with one exception. I don't like the midwestern southern accent. The accent Texans have, I really don't like it except in Western movies. French, British, Russian, German, Australian . . . I like all the accents on English except that one.

I hope you have heard the typical Australian accent, which you will hear in Aussie and not (usually) in American movies. We do not all sound like Steve Irwin; his is a more exaggerated form of our accent (though his is natural). The 'Australian' accents in that Simpsons episode was a laughable mixture of British and who-knows-what accents.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
And I agree with what JD and Lizra said. We the people have chosen them to represent us, and a large majority of us support them. If you hate them, you hate us.

Well I still have to disagree with the 'if you hate them, you hate us'-statement. I find it a dangerous way of looking at things for you will see racism where none was intended. Heaven forbid that I judge your people by your administration. For one thing administrations change more often. Just like I hope you don't judge me by my government.

On a lighter note, I like the Scottish accent. that 'r' makes me laugh.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

But the majority of Americans support the government's actions. It makes no sense to hate the government who takes the action, and to not hate the people who whole-heartedly support it, in my opinion.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Well I still have to disagree with the 'if you hate them, you hate us'-statement. I find it a dangerous way of looking at things for you will see racism where none was intended.

I agree with this. It falls into the same category as statements like 'either you're with us, or against us'. I don't understand such statements, things aren't that simple. It's putting words into our mouth. We may strongly disagree with you, but we're not hostile.

I think Pilger's article was far too much, I found it rude and impertinent. But I saw it more as an anti-war statement than anti-American.

The USA is the only remaining superpower of the world. The actions taken by the USA will inflict all of us in some way. I think it's a healthy sign that these actions are criticised. I would be seriously concerned if there were no criticism. The USA has proven they are willing to, and have the power to do what they like regardless of all other countries' opinions. Do you not understand that this demonstration is causing insecurity, fear, anger, and even hate?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

"other countries" being French smugglers. Don't forget how many nations joined the coalition.

[GrayMouser]

Actually, "You the People" chose Al Gore.
A quirk in the system chose George Bush.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
"other countries" being French smugglers. Don't forget how many nations joined the coalition.

And some of them even knew they had.