01-20-2006, 12:05 PM | #761 | |||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and once again, this is apples and oranges when compared to a purely human concept like good and evil
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|||
01-20-2006, 12:12 PM | #762 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Quote:
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
|
01-20-2006, 01:09 PM | #763 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
saying "IMO" implies that everything else you've not tagged that on to is in fact gospel, which it is not plus, i have tremedous respect for everyone's opinion here, IMO
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
01-20-2006, 01:46 PM | #764 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
No, I mean if you found enough conclusive evidence during your life here (say in the next year) to persuade you that Christianity was true, what would you do?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
01-20-2006, 02:10 PM | #765 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
conclusive evidence that a person named jesus existed in more or less the way the bible portrays him is not evidence that all his claims originated from god... and "miracles" are always subject to interpretation... hundreds of thousands of people have "witnessed" UFOs, is this conclusive evidence? i can't think of anything that could happen that was seemingly divine, that would not lead me to want to examine the incident further to see how many possible other explanations there were for it... even if i was the disciple thomas, i'd be looking for a projector behind some curtain i have very little "faith" when it comes to that sort of thing... jesus may have said "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."... for better or for worse, that's definitely not me
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
01-20-2006, 02:22 PM | #766 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
01-20-2006, 02:31 PM | #767 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Quote:
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
|
01-20-2006, 03:59 PM | #768 | |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I've been told it's all in my head
Posts: 916
|
Quote:
Well here's one of my favorite authors Norman Maclean. "In our family, there was no clear line between religion and fly fishing. We lived at the junction of great trout rivers in western Montana, and our father was a Presbyterian minister and a fly fisherman who tied his own flies and taught others. He told us about Christ's disciples being fishermen, and we were left to assume, as my brother and I did, that all first-class fishermen on the Sea of Galilee were fly fishermen and that John, the favorite, was a dry-fly fisherman. It is true that one day a week was given over wholly to religion. On Sunday mornings my brother, Paul, and I went to Sunday school and then to "morning services" to hear our father preach and in the evenings to Christian Endeavor and afterwards to "evening services" to hear our father preach again. In between on Sunday afternoons we had to study The Westminster Shorter Catechism for an hour and then recite before we could walk the hills with him while he unwound between services. But he never asked us more than the first question in the catechism, "What is the chief end of man?" And we answered together so one of us could carry on if the other forgot, "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever." This always seemed to satisfy him, as indeed such a beautiful answer should have" Beautiful Here's a great sit for the refered to Catechism...worth a look Westminster Shorter Catechism
__________________
Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! |
|
01-20-2006, 04:23 PM | #769 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
i love fishing
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
01-20-2006, 04:37 PM | #770 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
while not theological in nature the following makes one wonder the state of things
Italian Lawyers Asked to Prove Jesus Existed
Friday, January 20, 2006 ROME — Lawyers for a small-town parish priest have been ordered to appear in court next week after the Roman Catholic cleric was accused of unlawfully asserting what many people take for granted: that Jesus Christ existed. The Rev. Enrico Righi was named in a 2002 complaint filed by Luigi Cascioli after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth. Cascioli, a lifelong atheist, claims that Righi violated two Italian laws by making the assertion: so-called "abuse of popular belief" in which someone fraudulently deceives people; and "impersonation" in which someone gains by attributing a false name to someone. Cascioli says that for 2,000 years the Roman Catholic Church has been deceiving people by furthering the fable that Christ existed, and says the church has been gaining financially by impersonating as Christ someone by the name of John of Gamala, the son of Judas from Gamala. He also asserts that the Gospels — the most frequently cited testimony of Jesus' existence — are inconsistent, full of errors and biased, and that other written evidence from the time is scant and doesn't hold up to scholarly analysis.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
01-20-2006, 06:19 PM | #771 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
|
Along the same lines of not-neccesarily-related-but-worth-discussion is this click here
__________________
I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
Quote:
|
||
01-21-2006, 04:34 AM | #772 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Woah, it's illegal to say someone existed in Italy? If I said dragons existed would I get arrested?
That being said, I thought we already accept the various sources of evidence that Jesus did exist. Whether or not you think He's the Son of God is another matter, but I really thought it was accepted that Jesus was a real person. edit: I really want to see "Son of Man" now! It looks awesome. Thanks for the link RohirrimTR.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
01-21-2006, 12:23 PM | #773 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 01-21-2006 at 12:32 PM. |
||
01-21-2006, 01:23 PM | #774 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
The spiritual side of things is similar. There is evidence concerning it that exists, and as people explore this evidence more and more deeply, the absolutes concerning it become more and more apparent. There are some key differences between this and science, though. Science is just information. It doesn't fight over you, like the spirits does. You can learn about it without it attempting to seduce you, destroy you or save you. So there are some definite differences, but in spite of this, there is strong, stable evidence that can be looked into concerning many of the modern day miracles, and Jesus' miraculous resurrection and fulfillment of Biblical prophecy that provide a strong case. There is also the more astounding evidence that you also can experience the spiritual reality firsthand in such form that you will know that it is objective truth rather than subjective guess. You can't treat the examination of spiritual evidence quite the same as you can physical evidence. Different tools are needed to approach spiritual truth than are needed to approach physical truth. However, the results are amazing. Our ignorance and errors do blind us to some extent in this world, and I think you have correctly understood this fact. We are very blessed that when Jesus ascended into heaven, he sent the Holy Spirit to us to prevent ignorance and misinterpretation about those things that matter most.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
01-21-2006, 01:37 PM | #775 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Quote:
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 01-21-2006 at 01:40 PM. |
|
01-21-2006, 02:46 PM | #776 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Just to make sure we're on the same wavelength really quickly, I'll just clarify one thing that may not be clear. When I said "faith" above, I was referring to blind faith. Just wanted to make that clear. Many people think Christianity is nothing but blind faith, a view I have fought vigorously against ever since I first came to Entmoot's General Messages. True Christianity, instead, is reasonable faith. For example, you can be reasonably sure, as a child, that your mother is going to give you breakfast in the morning. It's faith, but it's not blind faith. It's faith based upon loving relationship and upon experience. My problem is with blind faith and unthinking faith, not with reasonable faith.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 01-21-2006 at 02:51 PM. |
|
01-21-2006, 06:49 PM | #777 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Thus we have heard a most excellent example of double speak.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
01-21-2006, 07:32 PM | #778 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Don't you think there's a difference between blind faith and reasonable faith, even if you think Christianity belongs to the former?
For example, isn't there a difference between the faith of a child expecting breakfast from a parent and the faith of a child who is trying to fly with paper wings that one day he/she will succeed?
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
01-23-2006, 11:16 AM | #779 | |||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
|
Quote:
__________________
I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
01-23-2006, 11:29 AM | #780 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Quote:
Ah, what a compliment, but I must decline. I merely state what the Church has taught, is teaching, and will teach until Jesus' return and PROOF renders choice reality.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 01-23-2006 at 11:31 AM. |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Theological Opinions , PART II | jerseydevil | General Messages | 993 | 03-22-2007 05:19 AM |
LotR Films in Retrospect and Changed Opinions | bropous | Lord of the Rings Movies | 41 | 07-14-2006 10:14 AM |
Opinions for what book(s) to get next... | Dúnedain | Middle Earth | 40 | 11-17-2003 09:23 PM |
Opinions: Fëanor, ritcheous or over-proud? | Fëannel | The Silmarillion | 201 | 05-05-2003 06:39 AM |
need opinions: POLL: HAIR COLOR... | Sminty_Smeagol | General Messages | 33 | 02-16-2003 10:37 PM |