05-22-2003, 12:39 PM | #761 |
Elf Lord
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No need to do a search; it seems pretty simple to me:
Is the Bible true or not? Did this happen, yes or no? If yes, either: A) Murdering pregnant women, grandmothers, and babies is GOOD because God commands it. B) Murdering pregnant women, grandmothers and babies is NOT good, and therefore God sometimes commands that which is Evil. C) I can't say whether murdering pregnant women, grandmothers and babies is evil; maybe sometimes it's good, maybe sometimes it's evil; it's a mystery. . And if you're saying the Bible is not "easy" or whatever, I'll put you down for "C" If you can pick something other than the above, please tell me
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05-22-2003, 12:47 PM | #762 |
King of Nargothrond
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Basically, you must remember. These women had turned the Israelites away from God. It had nothing to do with them being pregnant, bu them sleeping with men who were not their husbands. These women were Cananites, who God hadsent the Israelites to Eradicate. No I know you're going to say something about God ordering war...BUT...the Canaanites did much worse. As an example, the God Molech was a hollow statue which would have a fire buit inside. The Canaanites placed children in his arms and they were burned alive.
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05-22-2003, 01:08 PM | #763 | |
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Quote:
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05-22-2003, 01:16 PM | #764 |
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GrayMouser has a point.
Modern Christians want to believe in a merciful, loving god that forgives all sins and opens his arms to all walks of life. In fact, the bible states otherwise, and in many places. This loving god they worship in reality is nothing more than an excuse to subjugate the masses and justify acts of horror against their fellow human. God is with us, drop a bomb on 40K people, it's ok. God is with us, round up people because they worship differently the same god, but not his son. We'll gas them all and dump their bodies in mass graves. But it's ok, god is with us. Let's capture people from their homes, stuff them in ships under inhuman conditions and take them (if they survive the journey) to various continents to be sold as chattel because the color of their skin is different. It's ok, the bible says we can keep slaves. Don't get me wrong. I don't think this kind of justification is exclusive to Christians. Muslims do it to. As well, others. |
05-22-2003, 01:25 PM | #765 |
King of Nargothrond
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I'm a Christian and I don't believe that those thingsshould have been done in the name of God at all! The Crusades? F***ing retarded. But people did that in the ame of God. Did God tell them to? NO! The pope did! But lets not get into that. (I'm not Catholic as I'm sure you can guess)
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05-22-2003, 01:32 PM | #766 | ||
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Quote:
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I also question the assumption that we all have a universal sense of what's right and wrong. I don't think we're born with a sense like that, rather I think our moral code is something we learn as children, and our feelings of what's right and wrong depends on what society teaches us.
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05-22-2003, 02:07 PM | #767 | |
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05-22-2003, 02:10 PM | #768 |
King of Nargothrond
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I agree. It's not just Catholics. Protestants are as bad too. But I believe God doesn't just speak through one "Almighty voice of God leader". I believe he speaks to all and anyone who will listen.
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05-22-2003, 02:17 PM | #769 | |
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Quote:
"hello?..... yes... this is Ruinel... god?! ... ok.... I'm listening... mmhmmm... righteous, dude ... mmhhmmm.... uh, cool... right on... *chuckles*... yeah... I'll tell him... oh, yeah... cool... yeah, later, dude." *hangs up phone* ... god says we're not married. |
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05-22-2003, 02:23 PM | #770 |
King of Nargothrond
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Scowl...scowl...scowl...scowl...starts to crack...scowl...scowl...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!...ahem...scowl...scowl.
But seriously, I've never heard of God using the phone directly. Although he speaks to us through other people, who may speak to us through the phone! Anyways, I still love you Ruinel. PM me and tell me you email. Iwon't pester you. and i mean that in all seriousness.
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05-22-2003, 02:33 PM | #771 | |
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Quote:
did he sound like george burns? or Alanis Morisette?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-22-2003, 02:46 PM | #772 | |||
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Quote:
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IR: Alanis Morisette. I loved that movie. |
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05-22-2003, 02:47 PM | #773 |
King of Nargothrond
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I never said God couldn't use a telephone. Just that I'd never heard of him doing so directly before.
And I quite enjoyed Dogma to.
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05-22-2003, 03:00 PM | #774 |
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Well... originally I had this post that would be considered by many sacrilegious. And although, I do not believe in there is a supernatural being, I stopped and thought about it. I was thinking that there are many Mooters who's feelings I care about and do not wish to offend. So, I decided to delete all that and put this up instead.
I don't really care what religion the person next to me is. I don't care what they worship or don't worship. What I do care about is that humans in general have used their religion and the deity that they worship as an excuse to persecute, harass and even torture and kill people who are of a different religion than they are. I'm not talking about thousands of years ago, or even hundreds of years ago, or even 50 years ago. I'm talking about today, in your own backyards. |
05-22-2003, 03:50 PM | #775 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Quote:
And I'm not quite sure what you mean by "opens His arms" to all walks of life...?
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05-22-2003, 04:17 PM | #776 | |
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05-22-2003, 04:30 PM | #777 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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Well, I've never heard of god calling people up on the phone either, but what about email? hmm, God@heaven.org? or would it be .com? .edu? .net? what exactly would heaven be then?
*is very curious as to what Ruinel was originally going to say in her post* *grin*
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05-22-2003, 04:36 PM | #778 |
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at a beta club convention a few years ago the motivational speaker said that he was about to kill himself of something but he was going to call his mom before he did or something like that. or maybe he just picked up the phone. can't remember the details but he said God talked to him on the phone. or maybe it was that he picked up the phone right before he was gonna kill himself and god told him to call his mom. i can't remember. i just know he said that God talked to him on the phone.
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05-22-2003, 04:39 PM | #779 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OH......MY.......GOODNESS!!!
Houston, we've got some problems here...... *I'm going to be up packing very late tonite - sigh* OK, first Grey Mouser... Quote:
(1) Well, you're wrong, IMO; it's NOT simple. If I think that something is simple and another person who has studied that field says it's not quite as simple as it seems, then I at least give them the benefit of the doubt and think that perhaps it only looks simple to me because I don't know much about it. Will you give me the benefit of the doubt and think that perhaps it's not as simple as it appears to you? (2) yes; yes. (3) This is a pretty simplistic analysis, IMO. I think your problem lies in a common misconception that non-Christians have - the (wrong) idea that "love" and "good" are only fluffy, nice, friendly things. As C.S. Lewis puts it, we want a "grandfather in heaven" who is rather senile and just wants to give us candy and let us have fun. We don't want a father who loves us and cares enough about us to correct us when we do wrong things. My oldest son just turned 13, and we're starting wrestle over some things (not physically, at least yet!). I told him just yesterday, "you can make this hard for me, or you can make it easy - your behavior is your choice - but I"m going to keep working on this, BECAUSE I LOVE YOU!". Your view of God (and some other people's views that I see here) does not seem to allow for that kind of love. Also, what about consequences? Do you want a God that turns his back on horrific behavior? Is it "GOOD" for me to discipline my son for his bad choices? He may not think of it as "good" in the simplistic sense (like you used in your options above), but it IS "good" in the real sense - it is in his best interests! And again, I don't "like" it, either - it's very difficult for me - but I do it BECAUSE I LOVE HIM AND BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-22-2003, 04:47 PM | #780 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(3 continued)
Your analysis is simplistic in another way, too, IMO - you're saying that whatever God commands is "good". I would say that whatever God commands is "right" and "just" and "the perfect choice for the situation" - it is "good" in THOSE senses, and not in a silly, fluffy type of meaningless "good" sense. In THIS case, what was commanded was also sorrowful, but because of the free will that God has, in His wisdom, allowed us, it was necessary. I would NOT use "good" for this situation, because I think the meaning of the word is not adequate for the situation, esp. the common, popular meaning. Would you please reconsider your view that it's a simple subject, and look up Wayfarer's posts? He had quite a few posts on this subject, and I think they were very good. I can add some more thoughts next week, too, if you would like me to. (4) I can, and I did
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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