REAL debate thread for RELIGION

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Materialist/naturalist theories of evolution ( supported by people like me )certainly are; guided evolution isn't, and I think that this is what the Pontiff is supporting.

I agree; but "supporting" and "proclaiming to subscribe to" are two different things, are they not?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Drgnslyer
However with faith, that's just the thing, it cannot be truly defined, you can say what faith means, but you cannot describe the experience of faith and do it justice at the same moment. Faith simply is, either you have it in any particular area or you don't....which is likely why some people are that much more adimant about what they believe in, which is representative of their level of faith.

fair enough.

[Katie of the Golden Wood]

I think faith is something very individual. I'm in no way against organized religion, but I also believe you need more. People go to church every week, but they don't have a really strong belief while others never go to church but have a very deep faith and are good people.

Katie

[brownjenkins]

i have a very strong faith in my family and close friends... i don't think i have ever really looked much further than that

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
[B]But in any case the science portion of it doesnt require any faith.

Only the parts that are non-measurable and non-observable

Faith is required in beliefs for which there is no measurable evidence.

Yes, for things like macroevolution

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Religion (the literal interpretation that is. not the philosophical nature of it) is by definition rigid and biased. Its a narrow point of view which when applied to nature takes all kinds of twisting and turning and ignoring to fit into the observable data.

I beg to STRONGLY differ but can't start until next week - too much to do this week!

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

hi, just discovered this thread

i am a liberal english gay white male buddhist

hows that, eh?

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with you RÃ*an (woah! j/k ).

Religion, by definition is organised spirituality. (But I'll look that up when I get home.) IOW, people with similar spiritual beliefs worhiping together. Connotations of rigidity exist for religion, because sometimes religious leaders incorporate their own political agendas. Off the top of my head, I can only think of the Pope (leader of Catholicism) and Henry the VIII (founder of Anglicanism).
This does not invalidate the religion, because the spirituality is still there. You just have to recognize it. You can also belong to a religion and be a very spiritual person. My spirituality:religious ratio is very high, but without religion, I wouldn't know all the beautiful hymns I love so much, and never would have had the opportunity to teach Sunday School.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
hi, just discovered this thread

i am a liberal english gay white male buddhist

Hi, nice to meet you! (again )

hows that, eh?

"eh"?!?! What, are you Canadian, too?

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
hi, just discovered this thread

i am a liberal english gay white male buddhist

hows that, eh?

*checks profile* I see you show dogs as well. I did that for a while (mini dachshunds).

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by RÃ*an

"eh"?!?! What, are you Canadian, too? [/B]

whats 'eh' got to do with canadians, so far as i knew
it was just a questioning grunt!!

[Nurvingiel]

I didn't know you were Buddhist! Cool!

Tell us about Buddhism, I don't know anything about it except that it was started by Sidartha Gauthama (sorry about the terrible spelling there), and I don't remember when.

Clearly, I have a lot to learn.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I agree with you RÃ*an (woah! j/k ).

*hee hee!*

Religion, by definition is organised spirituality.

But I strongly disagree with this statement at least as far as what I consider to be religious beliefs. IOW, my "religious" beliefs are that Christianity, as given in the Bible, is the true expression of the actual state of things in the world. An atheist's beliefs would include the belief that there is no God. Christians tend to have more "organized" things, tho, but I don't think organization, or lack thereof, is a sign of a belief. I don't let atheists off the hook that easily

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
*checks profile* I see you show dogs as well. I did that for a while (mini dachshunds).

yes, i show tibetan spaniels and toy poodles

[Rían]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
whats 'eh' got to do with canadians, so far as i knew
it was just a questioning grunt!!

Oh, Canadians always tack that syllable onto the end of their sentences .... *runs and hides from the Moot Canadians*

You show dogs? Cool! I love dogs! I watch the Westminster Kennel Club dog show every year. Tibetan spaniels - I'm gonna have to replay the tape of the show to see what they look like, I don't remember - are they in the toy group?

BOP - my sister-in-law just got a 7-week-old mini dachsund - SO cute!! Long hair, black and tan.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

buddhism:
where do i start??

not really a religion, as such more a collection of beliefs and a way of life
basically, the buddha (Siddatha Goutama [spelt differently in all countries]) teaches that you should live your life true to yourself, and always be good to other people as well as yourself.
We follow the 8 spoked wheel, to find Nirvana, which is spiritual enlightenment

hope that helps a bit

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Oh, Canadians always tack that syllable onto the end of their sentences .... *runs and hides from the Moot Canadians*

You show dogs? Cool! I love dogs! I watch the Westminster Kennel Club dog show every year. Tibetan spaniels - I'm gonna have to replay the tape of the show to see what they look like, I don't remember - are they in the toy group?

BOP - my sister-in-law just got a 7-week-old mini dachsund - SO cute!! Long hair, black and tan.

in our country (uk) tibbies are in the utility group
as they have a purpose, though are not generally used for that purpose anymore
sorry, i dont know the grouping system for the AKC, but they are probably in toy group

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
BOP - my sister-in-law just got a 7-week-old mini dachsund - SO cute!! Long hair, black and tan.

Yes, they are cute, at least right up until you have to chase them halfway across a paddock because they bit the judge, and escaped the leash... Long-haired ones are so much cuter than the short-haired, or wired ones. [/plug for my oma who breeds them]

[Rían]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Tell us about Buddhism, I don't know anything about it except that it was started by Sidartha Gauthama (sorry about the terrible spelling there), and I don't remember when.

Yes, I'd like to hear, too - I was just saying that there weren't any Buddhists around here!

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

if anyone wants to know about buddhism, i have posted a little bit further up ^

EDIT: just thought of some more,
it is actually the second oldest 'religion' in the world, after judaism
then shinto, taoism,hinduism, chridtianity, islam, sikhism
(if i'm wrong, i don't mean to offend, just point it out to me!)

it would seem that indian/oriental religions developed first?
with the three main 'western' religions coming later on
am i right in assuming that jews, christians and muslims worship the same god, only in different ways?