Capturing Tolkien's Vision vs. A Literal Interpretation

[Ruinel]

He actually admitted that he only recently read the book, for the first time if I recall.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
He actually admitted that he only recently read the book, for the first time if I recall.

Can we institute a LotR proficiency test then so we don't get bombarded by such garbage?

[Ararax]

10 times lotr 6 hobbit 3 sim

[azalea]

JD, didn't you see the "Jackson Improved on Tolkien" thread? It was opened by BB and closed after much angry debate. I think if you want to read BB's view on that matter, you should look in that thread. I think going into that here aside from comments made to support argument on the topic at hand would result in too much of a departure from the topic, and it would end up in a flame war that would result in the thread being closed. I happen to think this topic is interesting to people and is worth keeping open if possible. I'm just afraid if we "go there" again, we won't be able to keep it open.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by azalea
JD, didn't you see the "Jackson Improved on Tolkien" thread?

No i didn't. I've stayed out of the movie forum - except for a post here or there - because pretty much everyone knows my views on the movie. Every once in a while I come to this thread and see what someone is saying - and for him to make that statement - whether he has said it in other threads or not - is going to get a response from me.

[azalea]

Okay, point taken.

But I'm sure if you have time you'd find that thread...let's just say very interesting.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by azalea
Okay, point taken.

But I'm sure if you have time you'd find that thread...let's just say very interesting.

I'll check it out - but it'll make my blood boil I know - and then have no where to express my anger and outrage.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Let's just skip the reading, shall we?

-casts Blood Boil on JD-

[azalea]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I'll check it out - but it'll make my blood boil I know - and then have no where to express my anger and outrage.

Well, we can all use our imaginations to formulate what response we think you'd make. I'm sure we can guess which side you'd take. (Now I sound like Fezzig!)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hmm....

-using imagination to formulate JD's responses-

My GOODNESS, jerseydevil, I never knew you used such language! And so creatively, too!

[Elf Girl]

Goodness, this thread has fizzled without me!

How about we all stay on topic, shall we?

BB, I'd be obliged if you posted one of your patented infuriating garbage posts, to start the debate again.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Goodness, this thread has fizzled without me!

How about we all stay on topic, shall we?

BB, I'd be obliged if you posted one of your patented infuriating garbage posts, to start the debate again.

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies...l_laughter.gif

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
BB, I'd be obliged if you posted one of your patented infuriating garbage posts, to start the debate again.

It's so nice to know I'm missed.

Peter Jackson has been able to capture the magic and all of the important themes of Lord of the Rings while giving the story a stronger sense of tension, tighter pacing, increased drama, while also expanding upon the themes of self-sacrificing friendship. This has been a truly remarkable achievement by any measure...and the most exciting thing is: the best film of the trilogy is yet to come!

Thanks to PJ, my Lord of the Rings has become even MORE rich and MORE wonderful than it has been before the new films came out (I never thought it possible.) Beyond the books themselves, my new Lord of the Rings includes:
---The hauntingly beautiful music of Middle-Earth (ala Howard Shore).
---The wonderful scene between the dying Boromir and Aragorn,
---The incredible debate between Gollum and Smeagol,
---One of those special movie moments in Rivendell when Elrond tells Gandalf, "the ring cannot stay here."
---Gandalf's advice to Frodo in Moria.
---The broken stone staircase.
---The breathtaking view of Eowyn in Edora framed against the White Mountains.
---A deeper appreciation of the love between Aragorn and Arwen.
---A feeling that there actually existed a tower of Orthanc and that it looked EXACTLY like Alan Lee's film version.
---Merry and Pippen luring the orcs away from Frodo.
---That Gandalf and company came to the aid of Helm's Deep from the east rather than the west as previously reported by Tolkien.

I could go on and on... These movies are so good that they are evolving the modern mythology that is Lord of the Rings. If Tolkien purists were honest, THAT is the real reason why they are not embracing these movies like everyone else. They fear that, just like the many tellings of the Camelot story, this particular telling of the tale is so good and so compelling that it will leave its own permanent stamp on the mythology (the way people think about the story).

LOTR is not just Tolkien's tale anymore....and THAT, my friends, is the real motivation behind the vicious attacks on these brilliant movies.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer

Peter Jackson has been able to capture the magic and all of the important themes of Lord of the Rings while giving the story a stronger sense of tension, tighter pacing, increased drama, while also expanding upon the themes of self-sacrificing friendship. This has been a truly remarkable achievement by any measure...and the most exciting thing is: the best film of the trilogy is yet to come!

How did he capturte the magic? Gandalf is made into a dottering all fool who is talked down to by both Saruman and Elrond. He runs behind Saruman liked a whipped dog with his tail between his legs at Isengard. Merry and Pippin are practically brain dead through half the movie. The Blackriders are suddenly action oriented and cut off people's heads - whereas in the book it was their sheer presence that put fear into people. Galadriel and the Mirror were a joke, not to mention that what Frodo saw in the movie was all action. The book was a thousand times better and Jackson simply lifted some dialog, the characters and plot and turned it into a typical hollywood action movie.

I could go on and on... These movies are so good that they are evolving the modern mythology that is Lord of the Rings. If Tolkien purists were honest, THAT is the real reason why they are not embracing these movies like everyone else. They fear that, just like the many tellings of the Camelot story, this particular telling of the tale is so good and so compelling that it will leave its own permanent stamp on the mythology (the way people think about the story).

No - actually the reason I don't like is because they're typical hollywood action movie - with the cliched comic relief, the cliched tension and action. They're crap basically.

LOTR is not just Tolkien's tale anymore....and THAT, my friends, is the real motivation behind the vicious attacks on these brilliant movies.

It IS Tolkien's tale. That's the problem. It will ALWAYS be Tolkient's tale. Jackson wanted to make a fantasy action movie - which he succeeded - he didn't succeed in bring Lord of the Rings to the screen. The only thing he did get right was the scenary of Middle Earth - and that seems to be only because he wanted to do a 9 hour commercial for New Zealand

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
It will ALWAYS be Tolkien's tale.

Be prepared to tell that to your 13 year old daughter someday when she asks you why the Lord of the Rings books leave out some of her favorite parts from the films.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Be prepared to tell that to your 13 year old daughter someday when she asks you why the Lord of the Rings books leave out some of her favorite parts from the films.

Any child of mine would be smart enough to know that the books came BEFORE the movie and were written by Tolkien - not by Jackson.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Be prepared to tell that to your 13 year old daughter someday when she asks you why the Lord of the Rings books leave out some of her favorite parts from the films.

ACK!!! ... OH... mustn't ... flame... oh... restrain.. self... no.... ACK!!! ... mustn't .....
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! !

First of all... if I had a 13 year old daughter, she would have the intelligence to know that the movie was a failure in it's attempt to represent a great masterpiece. She would know that the BOOK represents the true tale, as it was told by the master himself. She would know that the characters in the film are NOTHING like the master had envisioned!!! That the movie is an ABOMINATION!!!

........*struggles with self to keep from flaming* .........

UNLESS SHE WAS A [edited] MORON!!!!

[Black Breathalizer]

Thanks to jerseydevil and Ruinel for illustrating my point. The mere thought that future generations may actually come to the books after viewing the films drives you Purists mad. Instead of appreciating both, you guys have to make it a damn competition.

Real fans of the story will take heart in the fact that Jackson's films will keep Tolkien's treasure from falling into obscurity in our increasingly video-oriented society. I want both to be around for a looooong time.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Thanks to jerseydevil and Ruinel for illustrating my point. The mere thought that future generations may actually come to the books after viewing the films drives you Purists mad. Instead of appreciating both, you guys have to make it a damn competition.

I dont care if people come to the books after the movies. My complaint is that I expected Jackson to stick closer to the books (not 100%) but I was extremely disappointed with the movies - and I downright hate them. As I have said repeatedly - he has created an action movie - nothing more.

Jackson's movies are Hollywood crap. He used every Hollywood cliche in the movies. He turned them into action movies. They are not Lord of the Rings and will not withstand the test of time - like the books have.

Real fans of the story will take heart in the fact that Jackson's films will keep Tolkien's treasure from falling into obscurity in our increasingly video-oriented society. I want both to be around for a looooong time.

Jackson's films would not prevent Tolkien from going into obscurity. Actually a lot of people may go - "why should I read the books - I can watch it on video."

Tolkien was doing VERY well without the movies - so I don't see where you think they would have gone into obscurity. Hopefully some day a director worthy of putting Lord of the Rings on the screen will come a long - Jackson was NOT that director - as I had hoped.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Real fans of the story will take heart in the fact that Jackson's films will keep Tolkien's treasure from falling into obscurity in our increasingly video-oriented society. I want both to be around for a looooong time.

YOU are not a real fan of the story!!! Any true fan would have been outraged over the horrible changes that PJ made to Tolkien's great work!!! And you praise him for the changes he made!! You praise him for ruining a GREAT STORY!!!!

Tolkien's masterpieces were NEVER falling into obscurity. That notion is only based upon your own experience, because you never read the tale until you saw the movies!! That is NOT TRUE of the rest of the world, video-boy!!!! It will be PJ's movies that fall into obscurity. Movies come and movies go. But great books shall ALWAYS be here. They are timeless and never dying!!!