Men of the Silmarillion - Page 38

Last Child of Ungoliant · 02-01-2005, 08:40 AM

when annael is speaking to tuor about turgon in UT, he says that Turgon lives yet, and he is the most feared of morgoth's enemies, so there!!

**Nurvingiel** · 02-01-2005, 09:48 AM

Morgoth should fear Luthien! He got OWNED.

Does Morgoth count as a man of the Sil? Not that anyone would want him... O.o

And it's partly his fault (due to his influence on Sauron) that Gil-Galad was slain!

Why wasn't there a High King after him?
EDIT: Because it didn't have to be a direct descendant. Didn't Gil-Galad become High King after his uncle?

Elemmírë · 02-01-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

Last Child of Ungoliant when annael is speaking to tuor about turgon in UT, he says that Turgon lives yet, and he is the most feared of morgoth's enemies, so there!!

Who else was still alive?

The Fëanorions helped him more than they hurt him...

And what was left of the Houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin?

And Lúthien was dead too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Why wasn't there a High King after him?
EDIT: Because it didn't have to be a direct descendant. Didn't Gil-Galad become High King after his uncle?

Well... that second part depends on what story you follow... SGH and I like the one that puts him in the House of Finarfin (probably more accurate anyway). I think it worked that the eldest male heir of a male line of the House of Finwë was High King.

Maedhros gave up the succession, so it passed to Fingolfin's and his sons. Fingon, in this version, was not Gil-Galad's father. Idril was Turgon's daughter, so she wouldn't count.

When they all died, I guess the High Kingship moved over into the House of Finarfin... or what was left of it.

The Finarfinions were all dead.

Orodreth, Angrod's son, was dead. The other two didn't have children. Galadriel was a woman (sort of

). All that was left was Gil-Galad.

I think.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-01-2005, 12:03 PM

I believe you are exactly right Elemmire. After Gil-galad, the line was dead, so the High Kingship was ended.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 02-01-2005, 12:13 PM

yes, but elrond is descended from turgon, so i would have thought he would be high king after the death of ereinion gil-galad?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-01-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

yes, but elrond is descended from turgon, so i would have thought he would be high king after the death of ereinion gil-galad?

I believe he did not qualify because he was half-Elven, so his blood line was not full.

Elemmírë · 02-01-2005, 03:34 PM

And he would also have inherited through a female line, being the grandson of Turgon's daughter, Idril. Stupid sexist Elves...

Telcontar_Dunedain · 02-02-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

And it's partly his fault (due to his influence on Sauron) that Gil-Galad was slain!

Why wasn't there a High King after him?
EDIT: Because it didn't have to be a direct descendant. Didn't Gil-Galad become High King after his uncle?

No, that was Fëanor's fault!

Minielin · 02-02-2005, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

I believe he did not qualify because he was half-Elven, so his blood line was not full.

That is so Feanor's fault.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 02-02-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

And he would also have inherited through a female line, being the grandson of Turgon's daughter, Idril. Stupid sexist Elves...

and they call themselves wise?

i bet that was Fëanor's fault too, he gets all he can out of nerdanel, then deserts her,
i bet he was just a male chauvinist pig!

Elemmírë · 02-03-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minielin

That is so Feanor's fault.

Hm... wanna bring it over to the blame thread?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

and they call themselves wise?

i bet that was Fëanor's fault too, he gets all he can out of nerdanel, then deserts her,
i bet he was just a male chauvinist pig!

Ah. Chauvinist pig. My favourite thing to say.

Poor Nerdanel. What did she see in him anyway?

Telcontar_Dunedain · 02-03-2005, 03:28 PM

Probably a chance for a good wedding Ring!

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-03-2005, 04:00 PM

Feanor did not leave Nerdanel. Nerdanel left him. After marrying him and giving him 7 little Feanors, I would have left him too.

Attalus · 02-03-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

Feanor did not leave Nerdanel. Nerdanel left him. After marrying him and giving him 7 little Feanors, I would have left him too.

You wouldn't have married him in the first place, what with Finrod being available.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-03-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attalus

You wouldn't have married him in the first place, what with Finrod being available.

How right you are Doc. Who would want a guy like Feanor when you have a great guy like Finrod hanging around?

Last Child of Ungoliant · 02-03-2005, 05:15 PM

i was speaking spiritually, his mind was already concentrated on other things, so he deserted her in a way

hey, it's an arguement, and i'm sticking to it

Elemmírë · 02-03-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

Feanor did not leave Nerdanel. Nerdanel left him. After marrying him and giving him 7 little Feanors, I would have left him too.

Nah... only one of them was really another Fëanor, though two others were pretty rotten in their own right.

Who'd want a guy like Fëanor around even if you didn't have someone like Finrod...?

Embladyne · 02-03-2005, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Who'd want a guy like Fëanor around even if you didn't have someone like Finrod...?

Yeah, makes me wish he had died of some "mishap" at a rather young age...but then, no Maglor

Minielin · 02-04-2005, 12:41 AM

Yeah... Maglor... mmm...

Elemmírë · 02-04-2005, 02:06 AM

Emmy and I are trying to convert each other...

I wonder who will win...

So far she's got a serious advantage, since I already like both the eldest sons of Fëanor... and she's got a thing against blondes!

02-01-2005, 12:03 PM	#744
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	I believe you are exactly right Elemmire. After Gil-galad, the line was dead, so the High Kingship was ended. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-01-2005, 03:34 PM	#747
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	And he would also have inherited through a female line, being the grandson of Turgon's daughter, Idril. Stupid sexist Elves... __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

02-03-2005, 03:28 PM	#752
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Probably a chance for a good wedding Ring! __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

02-03-2005, 04:00 PM	#753
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Feanor did not leave Nerdanel. Nerdanel left him. After marrying him and giving him 7 little Feanors, I would have left him too. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-04-2005, 12:41 AM	#759
Minielin Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: I dwell in possibility. Posts: 247	Yeah... Maglor... mmm... __________________ "...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum.

02-01-2005, 08:40 AM	#741
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	when annael is speaking to tuor about turgon in UT, he says that Turgon lives yet, and he is the most feared of morgoth's enemies, so there!!

02-01-2005, 12:13 PM	#745
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	yes, but elrond is descended from turgon, so i would have thought he would be high king after the death of ereinion gil-galad?

02-03-2005, 05:15 PM	#756
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	i was speaking spiritually, his mind was already concentrated on other things, so he deserted her in a way hey, it's an arguement, and i'm sticking to it

02-04-2005, 02:06 AM	#760
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	Emmy and I are trying to convert each other... I wonder who will win... So far she's got a serious advantage, since I already like both the eldest sons of Fëanor... and she's got a thing against blondes! __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

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