Classical Music

[trolls' bane]

I am listenign to Mozat's 40th, and btw...

I AM AN EXTREME BACH FANATIC THAT KNOWS ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING ABOUT HIM!
Bach is so cool!

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by EarthBound

I've played guitar since I was four, classical is my forte the last decade...anyone else play? Forgive me I didn't read back that far in the posts but wanted to poke my head in and hummm a few bars of Debussy.

I like Debussy's Three Pieces for Orchestre (Iberia etc). Other than that, I don't have anything else by him.

Janny, I have kept my eye out for Rutter's Requiem in stores, but it looks like I'll have to order via amazon.

Let's see...
I've aquired Sifonietta's by Waxman, Rosza and Herrman (all on a disc), Britten's Spring Symphony which was more of a Surprise Symphony than Spring (becuase I was surprised!) I expected somthing a la Beethoven's sixth or Vaughn Williams. Instead it was War Requiem a la Bartok. A very good work, but it shares tto many qualities with the War Requiem to be interesting.
I bought Rudolf Kempe's recording of "Lohengrin", but I've been paying more attention to my Ring cycle (especially "Das Rheingold" ahhh...those rhinemaidens are lovely to listen to!) to listen to it all the way. And I can't get over the last part of Act I in Tristan und Isolde...exhilirating!

And also on my recording of Berlioz' Te Deum, the March at the end of the disc is very addictive.

Beethoven's Diabelli variations is another addition to my collection (they're longer than some of his symphonies!)

And speaking of Mozart, trolls bane, his 29th symphony is as good as the last six he wrote.

I found out that Mozart's 37 is actually a symphony by Michael Haydn. And speaking of him, I have eight of his symphonies and no.19 is very good!

I bought a very useful book by the music critic Michael Steinberg called "The Symphony". I stronly recommend it.

Sigh. There's a lot of talk about RCA and Decca cancelling anymore NEW recordings. It takes a million dollars to record Mahler's eighth, so if the label releasing that recording cant sell to just get back the money spent...well I think it's pretty obvious what I'm saying. That's why IF ANY NEW recordings of the eighth are done, they use half the forces required for the vocal parts. Maybe less. That's why labels are concentrating on stuff that sells like the three tenors, charlotte church, and joshua bell.
Even then it takes awhile to gain back the profits (gain back the profits! ).
All this stuff makes my head ache.
Most critics say this dilemma is due to incompetence on the labels marketing choices.
The thing is, they arent building A NEW AUDIENCE. Essentially, all labels have two types of buyers. Those who buy Charlotte church and Andrew Lloyd Webber, and those who buy stuff like John Eliot Gardiner, Bach's cantatas and anything else in between. In America, our audiences don't grow, they shrink. At least those who prefer Gesualdo to Pavarotti...
The real way to solve this problem is to INTEREST PEOPLE, YOUNG AND OLD (you'd be surprised how many old people DON'T like classical music).
One of the principals that must be kept in mind is to let people know that classical music is not boring, that it is not exclusively for relaxation, and that it can often be more nerve wracking (in a good way) than the heaviest metal.
More NEW WORKS, more advertising, and music appreciation in schools is definitely the best way to start. Having compsers like Howard Shore and John Williams conduct their music and a bit of new music is the best way to attract younger people.
But also remember the Leonard Bernstein and Aaron Copland gave public lectures about the right way to listen to music. Bernstein's Young People's concerts did a lot to help BACK THEN. We don't anything like that anymore, or at least no one with the charisma (forget Michale Tilson Thomas, he lost his reputation a long time ago.)

I'm still waiting for a new Bernstein...

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

I am listenign to Mozat's 40th, and btw...

I AM AN EXTREME BACH FANATIC THAT KNOWS ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING ABOUT HIM!
Bach is so cool!

His second Brandenburg concerto is simply the best isnt it?!

[Mercutio]

They are trying to turn classical music performers into pop celebrities so the genre doesn't just crash. Joshua Bell must have a good agent and advertising or something...he's a good violinist but not the huge virtuoso he's made out to be. And that opera singer girl...Even in the brochures for the Philly orchestra they have blurbs about performers with the weirdest dumb information trying to turn Mr. Second Trombone into a celebrity.

My dad has a book titled "Who Needs Classical Music." I ought to read it.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

His second Brandenburg concerto is simply the best isnt it?!

I heard it a long time ago, and have'nt since. I'm listening to it now.
One of my favorites is the Double Harpsicord.

[Fat middle]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I found out that Mozart's 37 is actually a symphony by Michael Haydn.

That's the Linz symphony, doesn't it? I didn't know it wasn't wrote by him.

Sigh. There's a lot of talk about RCA and Decca cancelling anymore NEW recordings. It takes a million dollars to record Mahler's eighth, so if the label releasing that recording cant sell to just get back the money spent...well I think it's pretty obvious what I'm saying. That's why IF ANY NEW recordings of the eighth are done, they use half the forces required for the vocal parts. Maybe less. That's why labels are concentrating on stuff that sells like the three tenors, charlotte church, and joshua bell.
Even then it takes awhile to gain back the profits (gain back the profits! ).
All this stuff makes my head ache.
Most critics say this dilemma is due to incompetence on the labels marketing choices.
The thing is, they arent building A NEW AUDIENCE. Essentially, all labels have two types of buyers. Those who buy Charlotte church and Andrew Lloyd Webber, and those who buy stuff like John Eliot Gardiner, Bach's cantatas and anything else in between. In America, our audiences don't grow, they shrink. At least those who prefer Gesualdo to Pavarotti...
The real way to solve this problem is to INTEREST PEOPLE, YOUNG AND OLD (you'd be surprised how many old people DON'T like classical music).
One of the principals that must be kept in mind is to let people know that classical music is not boring, that it is not exclusively for relaxation, and that it can often be more nerve wracking (in a good way) than the heaviest metal.
More NEW WORKS, more advertising, and music appreciation in schools is definitely the best way to start. Having compsers like Howard Shore and John Williams conduct their music and a bit of new music is the best way to attract younger people.
But also remember the Leonard Bernstein and Aaron Copland gave public lectures about the right way to listen to music. Bernstein's Young People's concerts did a lot to help BACK THEN. We don't anything like that anymore, or at least no one with the charisma (forget Michale Tilson Thomas, he lost his reputation a long time ago.)

I'm still waiting for a new Bernstein...

I agree. It's very interesting what you say about the need of interesting new audiences in classical music. It seems like if the classical labels had forget the basics of marketing: how to create a market, or perhaps it is that they've lost all interest in that market.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Fat middle

That's the Linz symphony, doesn't it? I didn't know it wasn't wrote by him.



I agree. It's very interesting what you say about the need of interesting new audiences in classical music. It seems like if the classical labels had forget the basics of marketing: how to create a market, or perhaps it is that they've lost all interest in that market.

No, the Linz is no.36 (Haffner no 35, prague 38,).

Exactly as you say Merc, (and I feel betrayed by Kathleen Battle and Pavarotti), the three tenors as tenors are famous for sing pop songs. Thats right, on PBS they sing popular stuff and maybe one or two famous things by Puccini (Nessun dorma, its always Nessun Dorma).
So instead of sheperding the flock into the pen, they've bolted to a new audience (I think).

[hectorberlioz]

ordered on amazon:

Berlioz: eight overtures/Dutoit (didnt include the Rob Roy overture!)
Berlioz: Harold in Italy/Naxos (but I ordered it because of the reverie et caprice)
Brian: "Gothic" Symphony/Naxos
Sibelius: complete Symphonies/Lorin Maazel

Next in line...
Berlioz: Lelio/Dutoit
Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms/Stravinsky
Gorecki: Symphony no.3/zinman
Christopher Rouse: Sym. no.2
Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony/Chung
Martinu: the symphonies/Neeme Jarvi
Nielsen: Symphonies/Blomstedt

[Mercutio]

Ah...Nielsen Symphonies. Which ones?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Ah...Nielsen Symphonies. Which ones?

All of them, of course

[hectorberlioz]

Well finally! Darn IT!
I just ordered Copland's Organ Symphony and No.3, Honneger's nos. 3 and 5, and Chavez Six Symphonies. It was a tough vote that involved Gorecki, Mahler, Rouse and Berlioz.

Well, I've been listening to my Sibelius symphonies, just recieved. No.1 is the best after No.2, and No.6
Havegral Brian's "Gothic" Symphony should be here tomorrow.

[katya]

hb, have you heard the music from A Clockwork Orange? I've been in love with the sountrack for ages, and now my dad gave me a copy of the score. It's soooo cool. My cat even likes it.^^

[Fat middle]

Got my first lieder CD (excepting Strauss four last lieder that I got with his Methamorphosis and Tod und Verklarung). It's from Schumann: Liederkreis and Dichterliebe. Wonderful.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by katya

hb, have you heard the music from A Clockwork Orange? I've been in love with the sountrack for ages, and now my dad gave me a copy of the score. It's soooo cool. My cat even likes it.^^

I don't know if some of it is original music, but I do know that Beethoven is in there somewhere...I don't own it though.

Well, Fat Middle! Schumann eh? I checked a disc out from the library here with songs by Brahms and Schumann. I liked the Schumann ones, but the Brahms ones seemed to really drag...I probably wasnt in the mood. My favorite song cycles are Berlioz' les nuits d'ete and Mahler's des knaben wunderhorn.

Havergal Brian's first symphony has reached my ears. And I like it, but I know I won't know the full power of the music until I get a better cd player or something, mine just cant handle huge sonic sounds very well...

What do you guys think: should I get William Schuman or Charles Ives next?

[katya]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I don't know if some of it is original music, but I do know that Beethoven is in there somewhere...I don't own it though.

OST:
1. Title Music fr A CLockwork Orange
2. The Thieving Magpie (abridged)
3. Theme from A Clockwork Orange (Beethoviana)
4. Ninth Symphony, Second Movement (abridged)
5. March from A Clockwork Orange (Ninth Symphony, Forth Movement, Abridged)
6. William Tell Overture (Abridged)
7. Pomp and Circumstance March No. I
8. Pomp and Circumstance March No. IV (abridged)
9. Timesteps (excerpt)
10. Overture to the Sun
11. I want to Marry a Lighthouse Keeper
12. William Tell Overture (abridged)
13. Suicide Scherzo (Ninth Symphony, Second Movement, Abridged)
14. Ninth Symphony, Fourth Movement (Abridged)
15. Singin' in the Rain

score:
1. Timesteps
2. March from A Clockwork Orange
3. Title Music from A Clockwork Orange
4. La Gazza Ladra
5. Theme from A Clockwork Orange
6. Ninth Symphony: Second Movement [scerzo]
7. William Tell Overture, Abridged
8. Orange Minuet
9. Biblical Daydreams
10. Country Lane

The ones that look like repeats are different versions, all the ninth symphony songs are Beethoven, and Timesteps and the last three songs are all originally by Carlos, I think. It's not so much the songs that are there but the way they're presented. You may like it but definately might not. Maybe you'd get along with Alex though. He may be more obsessed with classical music than you.

[Fat middle]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I don't know if some of it is original music, but I do know that Beethoven is in there somewhere...I don't own it though.

Well, Fat Middle! Schumann eh? I checked a disc out from the library here with songs by Brahms and Schumann. I liked the Schumann ones, but the Brahms ones seemed to really drag...I probably wasnt in the mood. My favorite song cycles are Berlioz' les nuits d'ete and Mahler's des knaben wunderhorn.

I think I know what you mean about Brahm's songs. I've never been much atracted to them. A completely different matter is his Requiem, don't you think? I absolutely love it!

Yep Des knaben wunderhorn is great. It's a pity I do not have a recording of it...

Havergal Brian's first symphony has reached my ears. And I like it, but I know I won't know the full power of the music until I get a better cd player or something, mine just cant handle huge sonic sounds very well...

What do you guys think: should I get William Schuman or Charles Ives next?

Never listened to anything from them three. Perhaps something from Ives but I don't remember it

[Mercutio]

I've been listening to Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition lately (Ravel's orchestrated version), and attempting some of the original on piano. We have some really really old music...the pages are falling apart and missing pieces.

[hectorberlioz]

Did Kubrick direct The Shining? I know that film has Rachmaninov's third piano concerto.
You should also know that Kubrick put music by Gyorgy Ligeti in 2001, without permission. Ligeti was mad, hated the film (except the last 20 minutes). But it's thanks to Kubrick that Ligeti has the followers he does, because half of them became interested in his music through that film.

Speaking of followers of composers...I've roughly estimated that Bach (especially), Wagner and Mahler have the most (devoted and numbered) followers, and then Mozart, Bruckner, Sibelius and Elgar.
We Berliozians are a smaller sect, but no less devoted...



I can't listen to the Ravel orchestration...it's too...clunk. Its unRussian! The piano version is a thousand times better. And I really can't listen to Bolero. I get to the saxaphone entrance and I stop...Ravel is too "cute" of a composer for me too like his music very much...except maybe La Valse
Also Debussy. You know the Iberia orchestral piece? Wonderful. But then one of D's cats comes in and scratches on the violin and ruins the feel of the whole piece.

It's been awhile since I listned to Brahms' requiem...I think I'll listen to it tonight...

recent listening includes the symphonies of Carlos Chavez, Berlioz overtures, Sibelius syms., and Bach organ music. And Monteverdi's vespers. And Beethoven's fifth piano conc. And Berlioz' Te Deum and the Symphonie funebre...And I can't forget Honegger's third and fifth symphonies and Pacific 231.
I really urge you guys to look into Chavez's sifonia india.

[Mercutio]

I hate Bolero.



Just MHO.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

I hate Bolero.



Just MHO.

Aye.

and my dear Mercutio, please help me edit this....


"How do you introduce someone to classical music sucessfully?

I think most people respond to "good tunes". Tunes that are memorable, hummable, and singable, and usually light and bouncy, or with a srtong beat. This is an opinion I can't help having, see that the most popular genres today are rap and pop.
This presents a problem. A lot of classical pieces fit the description above, but I'll be honest: classical music is serious.
By that I don't mean that its all austere and stiff. Nor do I mean to imply that other music is incapable of bieng serious art...just that "the art of classical music" is a serious and often very complicated one. Listening to classical music is serious too, it requires patience, concentration and fair judgment. So this is heavy duty listening that I speak of, though listening to classical music without digging into it is still pleasurable. But some works REQUIRE and DEMAND the fullest attention. From both amateur and professional alike.
Unfortunately, few people bother trouble themselves with th e listening aspect of music. They simply hear it (and I presume this because I am forced to, by no means do I like it myself). Is there a difference? Certainly. Suppose you are speaking to someone of the phone and they go on and on for ages, and you hear their voice, but you arent listening to what they are saying. Thats explanation enough.
Now for an equally important issue: with all this seriousness and concentration required for proper listening, where's the enjoyment music is supposed to give me? After all music is for enjoyment...for people.

[....and here I havent written the begginning of my reply, but I plunge on...]

When I listen to music I never ask myself "am I smarter yet" Because I don't listen to it for that purpose. So if it's so serious an experience and I don't get smarter (actually it does make you smarter but not in the magical way imagined), Why do i listen to it? Because I enjoy it...I enjoy the difficulty of one piece, the simplicity of another...I enjoy listening to a work buildup, grow and come to a fitting, proper end, sometimes glorious, sometimes quieter....


[here I'll take a break...almost itme for my piano lesson, and I still have to check my pm box]