Writing using Tengwar characters - Page 38

Elf Girl · 07-15-2003, 05:01 PM

LOOKEEEE! http://home.earthlink.net/~sunspot1212/

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 07-15-2003, 05:03 PM

I myself like ld and m.

Elf Girl · 07-15-2003, 05:05 PM

The content of that post completely escaped me.

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 07-15-2003, 05:05 PM

Who is her boyfriend, because I've heard that spoon thing before... And some inappropriate things that come after it... Yuck.

Elf Girl · 07-15-2003, 05:08 PM

I cannot reveal that to you over the Net my friend... I would most probably be beheaded by TC...

***RÃan*** · 07-15-2003, 06:05 PM

Ooh, cool, ElfGirl! I'll try to send in a sample to add to your site - how fun!

I don't know Elbereth by heart, so I'll have to dig up my copy to search for the hidden error.

Elf Girl · 07-15-2003, 06:19 PM

It's hardly 'hidden'... Glaringly obvious from my point of view. (It was a wee bit of an accident. I have yet to produce a perfect 'Elbereth'.)

Elf Girl · 07-15-2003, 06:59 PM

Today I'm doing Earendil... I've filled three and a half sheets of calligraphy paper and have four more verses to go...

Quote:

I myself like ld and m.

Ah, now I understand. (what you meant.)

EDIT: Did one more verse *pant pant* three to go...

katya · 07-26-2003, 01:35 AM

hey i'm back....yeah, last year my cabin (at fine arts camp) was full of lotr fans. this year everyone just liked harry potter. oh well. i did write something in tengwar on my nametag by my bed though. i can't remember what it said. i think it said "rurouni kenshin" not that it mattered because no one could read it...

Elf Girl · 07-26-2003, 10:53 AM

Ooh! I taught my cousin Tengwar!

Elf Girl · 09-27-2003, 02:54 PM

Hallo! Don't want this thread dying, I love the pretty tengwar.

Check out the calligraphy at fellowship of the word-smiths! http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/

I also think I got my mom into it. (She was just like me when she was younger. She says she used to pass notes in the Cirth to her friends at school.) I showed her the lovely illuminations at Amanye Tenceli and she printed one out and hung it on the wall. So I printed out a self-compiled Tengwar-for-beginners sheet I've been handing out at school and gave it to her, and she said she'd try it. Whee! Fun! (by the way, if anyone wants the tengwar-for-beginners sheet, it's a word document so I'd be glad to attach it in an email.)

katya · 09-28-2003, 06:41 PM

Hey everyone! How's everyone doing? Hey, Elf Girl, would you mind emailing me the Tengwar for beginners? I haven't written much in a while, so I could use a refresher, and anyway, I'm curious to see how you did it. Thanks!

TinuvielChild · 09-30-2003, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
Who is her boyfriend, because I've heard that spoon thing before... And some inappropriate things that come after it... Yuck.

Ah, yes...Sorry, I haven't been around in ages. *ducks flying objects flung at her head by angry Mooters* The spoon thing is from a videoclip thingy called "Rejected", about a cartoonist who was commissioned to create ads for various products/tv shows, and who blew it all off and did very strange things instead. Needless to say, they were Rejected. And yes, some very strange and inappropriate things follow the spoon bit, said by a dancing cloud-puff?

Carmen · 10-03-2003, 03:17 PM

hello!

umm i'm having a small problem here so i thought to myself "now why don't i log on and ask the Mooters?". so i did.

so, i'm trying to write this thing in Sindarin, in Tengwar/Tethar mode. and in my smart 'Tengwar chart' it says there are two characters for the sound 'r'. Now i don't know how that works.

the one inside the words i get. It's the 'final r' I don't get. I mean, does it reffer to words where the exact last letter is 'r', like 'magor', or does it also reffer to words where 'r' is before the last letter, like these verbs:'tiro', 'caro', or 'acharn'.

oh and btw what is the diffrence in pronounciation (spl/) ? (for the two 'r'-s, i mean)

well, thanks in anticipation, (hope you'll answer).
bye-bye.

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 10-07-2003, 05:58 PM

I don't think there is a difference in pronunciation for the Sindarin mode, but in Quenya at least one is trilled (as far as I know). Can you trill an R before a vowel? I can't trill r's at all/

Elf Girl · 10-07-2003, 08:15 PM

Me neither. Heh.

I found a quill pen and some bottled ink in the basement, and did a rather nice version of 'A Elbereth' with them.

***RÃan*** · 10-07-2003, 09:09 PM

Hi Carmen, nice to meet another Tengwar lover!

I just do English-mode Tengwar, tho, so I can't help you.

Have you seen any of our attachments? It's fun to see how others write Tengwar - it's very individual.

Can you read my avatar?

Carmen · 10-11-2003, 06:54 PM

hello again, mooters!

of course i can trill R's

(my language trills them all...)
so i guess i'll never know when to use which 'r' i Sindarin...

i _can_ read your avatar, Rian 'haf'elven!

(by the way, how come your name is Riian, whit a long 'i', and your avatar says Rian, whit a short one?

) (..umm and how did you do it

)

I'll check your attachements, although i'm kinda sleepy rigth now, maybe tomorrow...

hope i can keep i touch,
bye-bye

cian · 10-13-2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Carmen: '... It's the 'final r' I don't get. I mean, does it reffer to words where the exact last letter is 'r', like 'magor', or does it also reffer to words where 'r' is before the last letter, like these verbs: 'tiro', 'caro', or 'acharn'.'

In the Sindarin King's Letter (third copy, which uses vowel-tehtar) we find examples of Ã³re used finally, and going by that system rÃ³men could arguably be used for your last three examples.

Originally posted by Carmen: 'oh and btw what is the diffrence in pronounciation (spl/) ? (for the two 'r'-s, i mean).'

According to J.R.R. Tolkien in Appendix E: 'R represents a trilled r in all positions; the sound was not lost before consonants (as in English part)'.

Same appendix, Tolkien also notes that: 'Thus 21 (Ã³re) was often used for a weak (untrilled) r, originally occuring in Quenya and regarded in the system of the language as the weakest consonant of the tincotÃ©ma; ...' -- and later indeed notes that 25 (rÃ³men) was used for 'full' trilled r.

Hmmm. Seemingly in Tolkien's roman orthography r represents a trilled r in all positions ... and we note the wording regarding a weak untrilled r 'originally occuring in Quenya'.

Anyway, here's a major Tolkien linguistic scholar, David Salo, on the subject in general, with reference to Quenya NamÃ¡rie -- and somewhat recently it seems, due to his apparent reference to 'Ms. Tyler':

'R represents a trilled r in all positions; the sound was not lost before consonants'. But individual production of the sounds (or ability to produce them!) of course may differ. Tolkien seems to acknowledge a difference in pronunciation of the r based on position in his tengwar transcription of Galadriel's NamÃ¡rie (which is in Quenya) in The Road Goes Ever On song book; there the r is generally written with rÃ³men (tengwa 25) but when final with Ã³re (tengwa 21). He also uses Ã³re before a consonant, as in ortane 'raised', mornie 'darkness', but for ry he uses rÃ³men with two dots under it (to indicate 'following y'). There, says Tolkien (still in App. E) 'was often used for a weak untrilled r, originally occurring in Quenya and regarded in the system of that language as the weakest consonant of the tincotÃ©ma.' So, maybe some elves did use distinction comparable to the one you've observed in Ms. Tyler's diction.' ~David Salo

Back to the King's Letter, Danny Andries theorizes that KL III is in a mannish mode of Minas Tirith. In any event you could say your piece is written in 'KL III mode' and 'copy' the use of rÃ³men and Ã³re therein -- over at Mellonath Daeron Per Lindberg currently suggests to use rÃ³men except at the end of words, and gives an example of how CurunÃ*r might be written.

Â¤

***RÃan*** · 10-14-2003, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carmen
(by the way, how come your name is Riian, whit a long 'i', and your avatar says Rian, whit a short one? )

'Coz I like it that way

I don't like long vowel carriers, and English-mode Tengwar (or "mannish mode of Minas Tirith", as cian says) is pretty informal.

And of course, it's "haf", not "half", because it's phonetic.

How I did it? I wrote it out, scanned it in, and reduced it to 60x60 pixels so it could be an avatar.

Nice to meet you, cian! I'm glad to see my thread revived with some new Tengwar writers

07-15-2003, 05:01 PM	#741
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	LOOKEEEE! http://home.earthlink.net/~sunspot1212/ __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium... Last edited by Elf Girl : 09-27-2003 at 02:56 PM.

07-15-2003, 05:03 PM	#742
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	I myself like ld and m. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

07-15-2003, 05:05 PM	#743
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	The content of that post completely escaped me. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

07-15-2003, 05:05 PM	#744
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Who is her boyfriend, because I've heard that spoon thing before... And some inappropriate things that come after it... Yuck. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

07-15-2003, 05:08 PM	#745
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	I cannot reveal that to you over the Net my friend... I would most probably be beheaded by TC... __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

07-15-2003, 06:05 PM	#746
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Ooh, cool, ElfGirl! I'll try to send in a sample to add to your site - how fun! I don't know Elbereth by heart, so I'll have to dig up my copy to search for the hidden error. __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

07-15-2003, 06:19 PM	#747
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	It's hardly 'hidden'... Glaringly obvious from my point of view. (It was a wee bit of an accident. I have yet to produce a perfect 'Elbereth'.) __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

07-26-2003, 01:35 AM	#749
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	hey i'm back....yeah, last year my cabin (at fine arts camp) was full of lotr fans. this year everyone just liked harry potter. oh well. i did write something in tengwar on my nametag by my bed though. i can't remember what it said. i think it said "rurouni kenshin" not that it mattered because no one could read it...

07-26-2003, 10:53 AM	#750
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	Ooh! I taught my cousin Tengwar! __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

09-27-2003, 02:54 PM	#751
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	Hallo! Don't want this thread dying, I love the pretty tengwar. Check out the calligraphy at fellowship of the word-smiths! http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/ I also think I got my mom into it. (She was just like me when she was younger. She says she used to pass notes in the Cirth to her friends at school.) I showed her the lovely illuminations at Amanye Tenceli and she printed one out and hung it on the wall. So I printed out a self-compiled Tengwar-for-beginners sheet I've been handing out at school and gave it to her, and she said she'd try it. Whee! Fun! (by the way, if anyone wants the tengwar-for-beginners sheet, it's a word document so I'd be glad to attach it in an email.) __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

09-28-2003, 06:41 PM	#752
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Hey everyone! How's everyone doing? Hey, Elf Girl, would you mind emailing me the Tengwar for beginners? I haven't written much in a while, so I could use a refresher, and anyway, I'm curious to see how you did it. Thanks!

10-03-2003, 03:17 PM	#754
Carmen Sapling Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: far away Posts: 12	help me needs hello! umm i'm having a small problem here so i thought to myself "now why don't i log on and ask the Mooters?". so i did. so, i'm trying to write this thing in Sindarin, in Tengwar/Tethar mode. and in my smart 'Tengwar chart' it says there are two characters for the sound 'r'. Now i don't know how that works. the one inside the words i get. It's the 'final r' I don't get. I mean, does it reffer to words where the exact last letter is 'r', like 'magor', or does it also reffer to words where 'r' is before the last letter, like these verbs:'tiro', 'caro', or 'acharn'. oh and btw what is the diffrence in pronounciation (spl/) ? (for the two 'r'-s, i mean) well, thanks in anticipation, (hope you'll answer). bye-bye.

10-07-2003, 05:58 PM	#755
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	I don't think there is a difference in pronunciation for the Sindarin mode, but in Quenya at least one is trilled (as far as I know). Can you trill an R before a vowel? I can't trill r's at all/ __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

10-07-2003, 08:15 PM	#756
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LothlÃ³rien Posts: 3,419	Me neither. Heh. I found a quill pen and some bottled ink in the basement, and did a rather nice version of 'A Elbereth' with them. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

10-07-2003, 09:09 PM	#757
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Hi Carmen, nice to meet another Tengwar lover! I just do English-mode Tengwar, tho, so I can't help you. Have you seen any of our attachments? It's fun to see how others write Tengwar - it's very individual. Can you read my avatar? __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

10-11-2003, 06:54 PM	#758
Carmen Sapling Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: far away Posts: 12	hello again, mooters! of course i can trill R's (my language trills them all...) so i guess i'll never know when to use which 'r' i Sindarin... i _can_ read your avatar, Rian 'haf'elven! (by the way, how come your name is Riian, whit a long 'i', and your avatar says Rian, whit a short one? ) (..umm and how did you do it ) I'll check your attachements, although i'm kinda sleepy rigth now, maybe tomorrow... hope i can keep i touch, bye-bye

10-13-2003, 03:23 PM	#759
cian Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 78	Originally posted by Carmen: '... It's the 'final r' I don't get. I mean, does it reffer to words where the exact last letter is 'r', like 'magor', or does it also reffer to words where 'r' is before the last letter, like these verbs: 'tiro', 'caro', or 'acharn'.' In the Sindarin King's Letter (third copy, which uses vowel-tehtar) we find examples of Ã³re used finally, and going by that system rÃ³men could arguably be used for your last three examples. Originally posted by Carmen: 'oh and btw what is the diffrence in pronounciation (spl/) ? (for the two 'r'-s, i mean).' According to J.R.R. Tolkien in Appendix E: 'R represents a trilled r in all positions; the sound was not lost before consonants (as in English part)'. Same appendix, Tolkien also notes that: 'Thus 21 (Ã³re) was often used for a weak (untrilled) r, originally occuring in Quenya and regarded in the system of the language as the weakest consonant of the tincotÃ©ma; ...' -- and later indeed notes that 25 (rÃ³men) was used for 'full' trilled r. Hmmm. Seemingly in Tolkien's roman orthography r represents a trilled r in all positions ... and we note the wording regarding a weak untrilled r 'originally occuring in Quenya'. Anyway, here's a major Tolkien linguistic scholar, David Salo, on the subject in general, with reference to Quenya NamÃ¡rie -- and somewhat recently it seems, due to his apparent reference to 'Ms. Tyler': 'R represents a trilled r in all positions; the sound was not lost before consonants'. But individual production of the sounds (or ability to produce them!) of course may differ. Tolkien seems to acknowledge a difference in pronunciation of the r based on position in his tengwar transcription of Galadriel's NamÃ¡rie (which is in Quenya) in The Road Goes Ever On song book; there the r is generally written with rÃ³men (tengwa 25) but when final with Ã³re (tengwa 21). He also uses Ã³re before a consonant, as in ortane 'raised', mornie 'darkness', but for ry he uses rÃ³men with two dots under it (to indicate 'following y'). There, says Tolkien (still in App. E) 'was often used for a weak untrilled r, originally occurring in Quenya and regarded in the system of that language as the weakest consonant of the tincotÃ©ma.' So, maybe some elves did use distinction comparable to the one you've observed in Ms. Tyler's diction.' ~David Salo Back to the King's Letter, Danny Andries theorizes that KL III is in a mannish mode of Minas Tirith. In any event you could say your piece is written in 'KL III mode' and 'copy' the use of rÃ³men and Ã³re therein -- over at Mellonath Daeron Per Lindberg currently suggests to use rÃ³men except at the end of words, and gives an example of how CurunÃr* might be written. Â¤ Last edited by cian : 10-14-2003 at 08:10 AM.

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