Should evolution be taught in schools?

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Yeah, but yours puts it in a nutshell. Mine is just waffle.

There aren't as many debates about Quantum Mechanics just yet, cos there isn't a laymans version out yet. Just wait. It'll come, and then every joe blogs will be just as well informed about QM, as he is on the second law of thermodynamics.

No, yours is better; I'm too lazy to type out much.
Even if people understood Quantum Mechanics (if anybody could! ), I still think that it won't stir up so much debate because it doesn't speak of our origins.

Just to continue the debate, biological evolution is fact. The thing is, scientists are unsure of the exact mechanism of evolution - hence the term theory of evolution. Scientists don't dispute evolution occurs, it does, and can be seen from the evidence. I would never say that the theory of evolution is scientifically proven - nothing can be proven, except in mathematics (which I have to do, yuck!)

[Rían]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Sorry for saying generally that you seemed to not agree with evolution being taught -

As on the other thread .. thank you for the apology and the edit

but the thing i was refering to - you did say it (Hobbit quotes brilliant post by RÃ*an )

Yes, I did say that, because I believe it to be true.

That is what that whole several sentences in that para was concerning. I was replying to basically what you said - i did not have the quote in front of me at the time. Just disregard the first sentence then - i just edited the rian part out anyway. I did not realize that you were for evolution in school but otherwised seemed against it.

ok

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
And now you will find the Creationists back paddling to cover their tracks.

why, do creationists object to natural selection? I've never heard that!

[Rían]

Sheeana (or others who are more up on this topic than I am) - at what level(s) of kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species can different animals produce offspring?

*yes, I'm too lazy to look this up, just like the macro/micro thing, and I hope you don't mind informing me, if you know it off the top of your head*

IOW, I don't think a human could breed with a canary and produce offspring! Where IS the interbreeding line drawn? Is it general or are there a few exceptions?

[Sheeana]

It's another one of those can of worms. We spent a whole class once trying to define "species" and we couldn't. It was far too complicated. Where do you draw the line? Biologically isolated? Geographically isolated?, etc. I *can* take a stab and say that it would probably have to be narrowed down to at least a sub-species level, but I'm making a wild guess here. The Linnaean system wasn't my strong point.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Jonathan
...According to the theory of evolution, the African Jews evolved black skin.

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Sheeana, is this a misuse of the word "evolved", in your opinion? I would say this demonstrates natural selection; it doesn't demonstrate "evolving". What's your opinion?

You are quite correct, this isn't really evolution but rather natural selection, which eventually leads to evolution.
If the African Jews had 'evolved' in the true meaning of the word, then they would have to be considered a separate species, unable to have children with other humans (unless the other humans evolved in the same way).
Now, the African Jews did not evolve to a separate species, they rather became a sub-species of the Israelites.

Lief Erikson mentioned the Burmingham Moth that turned black so that it could survive as a species. This was not 'evolution' either. It was just that Moths with a special genetical deffect (that made them black) became more common among them, because the deffect suddenly helped them to survive.
But the black Burmingham Moth and the white Burmingham Moth were still the same species, and therefore it's wrong to talk about 'real evolution' here.

Not until one species have changed into an entirely new species, you can't really say it's evolution.


I also want to point out that scientist in their labs have witnessed how one species of banana flies has evolved into two species over a relatively short time. Now there's real evolution.

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Not until one species have changed into an entirely new species, you can't really say it's evolution.

Bullshite. Evolution can still occur at a genetic level. That's why there's a distinction between microevolution and macroevolution.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Bullshite. Evolution can still occur at a genetic level. That's why there's a distinction between microevolution and macroevolution.

Ok then. Say microevolution is what happened to the Birmingham Moth and to the African Jews. And say that macroevolution is what happened to the banana flies I mentioned.

Definiton of Evolution

[Sheeana]

Well, no, because macroevolution occurs at the level of the organism or higher, whereas microevolution is only at a genetic level. Any dramatic change in phenotype, like a change in skin colour, or wing colour, would be macroevolution. Cladogenesis does not have to occur for it to be macroevolution.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Any dramatic change in phenotype, like a change in skin colour, or wing colour, would be macroevolution.

A dramatic change in phenotype does not have to be a dramatic genetical change. Skin colour for example, can depend on only a few genes, which in different combinations can give different colours. In a population, there can be many different phenotypes even though the genes are the same. They are just combined in different ways.

The Birmingham Moth (that turned from white to black) had by your definiton a dramatic change in phenotype. But it was absolutely not macroevolution.
First there were populations of white moths. Among them, there were always black moths too. They belonged to the same species, but they had a defect gene that made them black, and they could never survived for long because of that.
When the environment changed, the black Moths survived at a greater extent than the white Moth.

This is not macroevolution, since there has always been both white and black moths amongst the Birmingham Moths. When the phenotype changed to black, it was only a single defect gene that was responsible. And that gene had always existed amongst the moth populations.


Marcoevolution is more than just a gene or two that changes the phenotype. It's when an entirely new species is born.

[Cirdan]

Thanks Jonathan. I started out to make that point earlier but, as usual drifted off on some other tangent. The Birmingham moth is an example of selection of a recessive trait due to a changing environment.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Cirdan
The Birmingham moth is an example of selection of a recessive trait due to a changing environment.

*agrees*

[Sheeana]

Yeah, I thought about it last night, and I do believe that you are right. I recant.

[congressmn]

now Runiel claims Gwai is pregnant...Gwai is a man i hitherto thought...he still is a man....this has to be evolution

[gollum9630]

Originally posted by congressmn
now Runiel claims Gwai is pregnant...Gwai is a man i hitherto thought...he still is a man....this has to be evolution

yah, that whole thing confused me. Damn evolution

[Giroth]

LOL, NO


that's like asking if the existence
of dragons and elves should be taught in school.......hahaha


oh yes,and may I add,if we DID evolve from amoebas and such,WHO created the amoebas?or did they evolve from dirt?HAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

[HOBBIT]

Originally posted by Giroth
LOL, NO


that's like asking if the existence
of dragons and elves should be taught in school.......hahaha


oh yes,and may I add,if we DID evolve from amoebas and such,WHO created the amoebas?or did they evolve from dirt?HAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

??????? what are you talking about?

[gollum9630]

some one had to creat the ameobas, there for God created evolution.

[Lady of Rohan]

In my oppinion no. Nothing should be taught in school (j/k ).


But seriously, evoulotion should be taought in school. It is science. The poeple who belive that Adem and Eve theory, and don't care about the monkey one, can go to a religious school.

[gollum9630]

Originally posted by Lady of Rohan
In my oppinion no. Nothing should be taught in school (j/k ).


But seriously, evoulotion should be taought in school. It is science. The poeple who belive that Adem and Eve theory, and don't care about the monkey one, can go to a religious school.

according to the Adam and Eve theory, they only had boys. If it was true, the humans DEFFINETLY evolved over time