08-24-2005, 06:19 PM | #741 |
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And here's something that I think is pretty amusing -
You evolutionists will never - NEVER - know if you were right You'll know if the creationists were right, tho! We creationists will know if we were right, but we'll never find out if we were wrong!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-24-2005, 06:34 PM | #742 | ||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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and speaking of these matters ...
Quote:
Quote:
The subject is what is taught in classrooms. And to people who are willing to look at statements from people with actual experience, in at least SOME (and IMO, many) areas, neo-Darwinism is being treated with an almost religious awe, and doubts and problems with the theory are NOT being discussed. IMO, the problem is not so much with the primary level - the actual scientists - as it is in the secondary and tertiary levels - the classrooms and the press. And as many people do not have access to the actual scientists, or their journals, many (if not most) people get their opinions about evolutionary theory from these secondary and tertiary sources. And from what I have seen and heard, far too often anything at all critical of neo-Darwinism is not being brought up at these levels. And IMO, this is wrong. Quote:
Quote:
Are you saying that any idea that has been around a long time is necessarily wrong? I'd like to see you support that! Quote:
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-24-2005, 06:34 PM | #743 | ||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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and speaking of these matters ...
Quote:
Quote:
The subject is what is taught in classrooms. And to people who are willing to look at statements from people with actual experience, in at least SOME (and IMO, many) areas, neo-Darwinism is being treated with an almost religious awe, and doubts and problems with the theory are NOT being discussed. IMO, the problem is not so much with the primary level - the actual scientists - as it is in the secondary and tertiary levels - the classrooms and the press. And as many people do not have access to the actual scientists, or their journals, many (if not most) people get their opinions about evolutionary theory from these secondary and tertiary sources. And from what I have seen and heard, far too often anything at all critical of neo-Darwinism is not being brought up at these levels. And IMO, this is wrong. Quote:
Quote:
Are you saying that any idea that has been around a long time is necessarily wrong? I'd like to see you support that! Quote:
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-24-2005, 06:55 PM | #744 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'll leave the ice to you guys and toss another concept into the mix here.
I hope everyone here is willing to be logically consistent. If you guys will agree to abide by this standard, then I challenge the evolutionists who have said that creationism/ID is entirely outside of the scientific realm to do the following: 1. The next time you're at a party and meet an archaeologist or an anthropologist, take them aside and say, "I've heard some things about people like you that are truly ridiculous. I've heard that you actually dig things out of the ground and then say that people made them! You fool! Don't you know that science (at least since the definition was hijacked by a small but fervent minority) is entirely about finding naturalistic causes to things we see? How can you take that thing that is called the King Tut death mask, for example, and have the unscientific nerve to say that it was made by humans? Can't you see that we must find naturalistic causes for EVERYTHING, or it's not science? You need to propose and test theories for how things like running water or wind could have shaped the mask to coincidentally look like a face, and how perhaps a sand storm could have etched the lines that coincidentally look like his eyes and mouth and nose, or else you should be laughed out of the scientific community and your degree torn up, because that is how science is defined nowadays." 2. The next time you tour NASA (or was it JPL?), grab the first Mars rover scientist you see and pin him/her against the wall and say, "I certainly hope that silly creationist crowd hasn't influenced YOU guys! The next time you get a rover on Mars I hope that if you see something that looks like a 10-story building, complete with things that look like vehicles driving around with things that look like living, thinking beings in them, that you will, of course, remember that science (at least since the definition was hijacked by a small but fervent minority) is all about finding naturalistic explanations for things we see. Explore how Martian wind forces might erode a Martian mountain to coincidentally look like a 10-story building! Or perhaps rocks can mutate on Mars! Whatever you do, I certainly hope you will NOT infer design or intent from ANYTHING you might see." 3. The next time you're in the desert (Arizona or New Mexico, I think?) and pass the SETI project, pull a "U", screech into their parking lot, crash through their doors, and say the following: "I can't even believe you guys are looking for evidence of extraterrestrial life! You're actually scanning the sky for signals? Can't you see that if you find a signal, even if you can decode it and see a 10-foot-high being with 3 heads enjoying a backyard barbeque and swim party, that it MUST BE random chance? After all, ANYTHING is possible given enough time, right? At least that's what the evolutionists say when their ideas are determined to be statistically impossible. So you guys stop right now - there is no reason at ALL for you to infer anything but naturalistic causes from any type of signal you might receive, no matter what its characteristics are." So, evolutionists, are you willing to say these things to these people? I wrote it in a rather humorous way, but please seriously, and with an open mind, consider what I have said.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-24-2005, 10:51 PM | #745 |
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Sorry Rian, those make no sense and have absolutely nothing to do with people who "believe in" evolution.
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08-24-2005, 10:56 PM | #746 |
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do you mean you wouldn't say those things to those 3 groups of people, yet you would criticize those who look for indications of intent and design in the area of origins?
Could you please explain what you think the difference is?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-24-2005, 11:30 PM | #747 | |
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-24-2005, 11:30 PM | #748 | |
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-24-2005, 11:35 PM | #749 | |
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Quote:
True scientists arent concerned with winning petty little contests. Just with the pursuit of science by means of the data we have currently. True scientists dont go into a field because they want to verify a belief system. They go into a field because they want to know how things work.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-24-2005, 11:35 PM | #750 | |
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Quote:
True scientists arent concerned with winning petty little contests. Just with the pursuit of science by means of the data we have currently. True scientists dont go into a field because they want to verify a belief system. They go into a field because they want to know how things work.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-25-2005, 01:18 AM | #751 | |
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Quote:
And even if it WERE true - what's wrong with having it written into the curriculum guidelines that currently known, peer-reviewed-and-written-up-in-scientific-journals criticism against some parts of the theory of evolution shall be taught? Seems to me that all it does is safeguard students against the fanatic religious evolutionists that DO exist (I'm not saying all teachers are that way, but some are) and are afraid to tell anything against the theory. Protect the students by writing things like this into the curriculum guidelines, so that they are exposed to the full picture! And if you say it's already true now, then what possible reason could you have for objecting to it being explicitly written in?!? (The fear level I see in ardent evolutionists continues to amaze me!)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-25-2005, 01:18 AM | #752 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
And even if it WERE true - what's wrong with having it written into the curriculum guidelines that currently known, peer-reviewed-and-written-up-in-scientific-journals criticism against some parts of the theory of evolution shall be taught? Seems to me that all it does is safeguard students against the fanatic religious evolutionists that DO exist (I'm not saying all teachers are that way, but some are) and are afraid to tell anything against the theory. Protect the students by writing things like this into the curriculum guidelines, so that they are exposed to the full picture! And if you say it's already true now, then what possible reason could you have for objecting to it being explicitly written in?!? (The fear level I see in ardent evolutionists continues to amaze me!)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-25-2005, 01:24 AM | #753 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
(and correct at the same time) Think about it! Am I right, or am I right? And what in the world does that have to do with rejecting science?? Nothing. Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-25-2005, 01:24 AM | #754 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
(and correct at the same time) Think about it! Am I right, or am I right? And what in the world does that have to do with rejecting science?? Nothing. Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-25-2005, 01:58 AM | #755 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(btw, I need to give my sister a quick call and ask her what she thinks of the Kansas stuff - she's a middle-school science teacher who believes evolution happened - I keep forgetting to ask her, because her husband has had some health problems recently, and that's what's at the front of my head when I call her.)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-25-2005, 01:58 AM | #756 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(btw, I need to give my sister a quick call and ask her what she thinks of the Kansas stuff - she's a middle-school science teacher who believes evolution happened - I keep forgetting to ask her, because her husband has had some health problems recently, and that's what's at the front of my head when I call her.)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-25-2005, 02:40 AM | #757 |
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Don't you all know that the Martians seeded Earth when they left their meteor-devastated planet for a destination unknown.
We're shown so at the end of Mission to Mars. That's as good a theory as any. And in that last sequence we're also shown how evolution precedes any "creational ideas of Man". |
08-25-2005, 02:40 AM | #758 |
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Don't you all know that the Martians seeded Earth when they left their meteor-devastated planet for a destination unknown.
We're shown so at the end of Mission to Mars. That's as good a theory as any. And in that last sequence we're also shown how evolution precedes any "creational ideas of Man". |
08-25-2005, 03:06 AM | #759 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-25-2005, 03:06 AM | #760 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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