Bush addresses the world- Pending War

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Baby-K
Excellent quote BoP!

Fanks. *bg*

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Fanks. *bg*

You guys must just have wanted to let Hussein continue to terrorize his people. And I thought you actually wanted peace in the world and people not to live in terror.

It's funny how about 70 Iraqi citziens have been trying to tear down Hussein's statue for the past hour and now they have recruited a US tank to help.

I hate to tell you this though - we didn't enslave the Iraqis - nor are we. We're givign them freedom from terror - while you would happily sit back and let the toture chambers continue while you happily go about and direct your hate toward the wrong countries. By your inaction and lack of understanding - you support these regimes that kill their own people.

By the way - BoP - what you posted is nothing but proganda -

propaganda
1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

By the way - i especially like this little bit...

Since 11 September 2001, "our'' propaganda and its unspoken racism has required an imperial distortion of intellect and morality. The Iraqis are not fighting like lions, in defence of their homeland. They are "cowardly'' and subhuman because they use hit-and-run tactics against a hugely powerful invader -- as if they have any choice. This belittling of their bravery and disregard of their humanity, like the disregard of thousands of Afghans recently bombed to death in dusty villages, confronts us with a moral issue as profound as the Western response to that greatest act of terrorism, the wilful atomic bombing of Japan. Have we progressed? In 2003, is it still true that only "our'' lives are of value?

You know who we were after? We were after the people who were responsiblie for 9/11 (Osama Bin Ladin) and those who were protecting him in Afganistan. If the Taliban had turned over Osama Bin Ladin - we would have left Afganistan alone. I can show you the hole in the ground where TWO 110 story buildings stood in case you need a refresher course in WHY we went into Afganistan. I know - it's hard to remember things when you only want to believe that America is evil.

We gave Hussein plenty of time also. We have NOT been wilfully bombing civilians. But it is abundantly clear that you would rather support the regime who was torturing and executing innocent people. We never called his people cowardly or subhuman. It truly is sad that you would rather believe this crap and let people suffer than actually face reality.

As for Japan - we saved many more lives by ending the war. if you want to blame someone for the bombing - blame Japan. Your one sided-ness by posting this article has made your feelings VERY VERY clear fo everyone to see BoP. Thanks for providing me with your views of "evil-America" . Keep your one sided views.

By the way - they finally got the statue down. I know - it was just "propaganda". But I guess to you the fact that the Iraqi people lived in fear of their lives for decades is just evil American propaganda too.

Too bad you don't know what proganda is. Propaganda is DISTORTION of the facts to support your view. This happened. Unlike the Propaganda of the Information Minister. But I suppose you actually believed him.

I also found it funny how the Iraqi citizens were heckling the "Human Shield Marchers" today I guess they knew who actually gave them freedom from terror, since they were giving flowers and hugs to the US Marines.

[Lizra]

My MSN says "Baghdad falls! Iraqis celebrate"! Hooray! Though I still worry with all those chemicals, bunkers, and terrorist types lurking, the US and British forces are to be congratulated! (IMO) There is also a bit about "Iraq's torture chambers, inside a liberated Basra prison, survivors stories". I feel too much empathy for others, to read that. I'm excited and hopeful that things can begin "looking up" for the Iraqi people, and that all the torture, political supression and state sanctioned killing can stop. I hope the remnants of Sadam's army give up, and allow the healing to begin.

[Lizra]

BoP and Baby K......How (why) can you believe that stuff? I must say, I'm shocked you do. Kill the Arab niggers and Gooks. You really think that's the way it is....I'm sorry, I find that very sad, and truely amazing. I think it is politically naive to drag up horrendously complex issues like World War ll and Vietnam, as an example of USA trying to conquer the world. The blanket statements made in that one sided piece of USA hatred would take days to examine and understand. I really resent having such stuff posted at Entmoot. I feel insulted, and hurt.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Firstly, about Vietnam: I'm not an expert on the matter, but I'm almost certain that men, women, and children made suicide attacks on the Americans. But of course, it would have been better to let them blow up Americans, and send American flesh, American eyeballs, and American bone fragments flying every which way.
Secondly, I'm sure there is some truth on both sides. I said a while back that while I believed the intentions of the coalition are good, that does not mean that the soldiers will behave. No doubt, there will be some of the average invasion stuff being done by soldiers. But that some specific troopers are assholes does NOT in any way mean that this is what is the intention of the commanders and leaders. Many of the people on your side have done things which you would probably not be proud of, but does this mean that everyone should be judged by this? Anyway, as I was saying: I believe there to be truth on both sides, though not necessarily the same amount. But some people have irrational love for America, and some have irrational hatred for America. Personally, I've always believed it better to love than to hate, but to each his own.
JD: I disagree with this:

direct your hate toward the wrong countries

I don't think any country should be hated, tho' certain 'Mooters have made their despisal of America quite evident (ocassionally throwing in a "by the way, I don't hate America...they have some good shows"). But as I said, to each his own. Again, back to what I was going to say. I don't think that any country should be hated: the regimes of such countries as Iraq, maybe, but not the countries themselves.
Lizra: It's simple enough. America is evil, and incapable of doing anything which is not wholly vile and despicable (except some TV shows). After that, it's pretty easy to believe any and everything which says something bad about America or an American, and pretty hard to believe any and everything which says anything not bad about America or an American. For instance, Iraqis who are glad about the coalition forces coming, are obviously falsehoods created by the media, as the American soldiers no doubt shot any Iraqi they had the chance to, and treated the others like animals on a commercial farm. Whereas anything about Americans killing civilians, or Americans doing anything of the like is obviously accurate, for the reasons stated above. Personally, I don't believe in despising any country. But to each his own.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem

JD: I disagree with this:

Personally, I don't believe in despising any country. But to each his own.

Well I don't hate any country. But I still think that BoP and Baby-K direct their hatred toward the wrong countries (by that I mean regimes - except the US does not live under a regime). Also - by that I mean comparing Bush to Hitler and so forth. They mention nothing about the atrocities of the Iraqi regime or North Korea nor have a I heard ANYTHING from them demanding peace in the Congo after last weeks massacre.

The US gvernment is freely elected. 70+% of the American population supports the military action in Iraq. Since they have such a negative image of America - I must assume they have a negative image of AmeriCANS.

As for what BoP wrote - that used to be standard stuff she used to regularly post in the past. I think it definitely shows her views of America.

[Sister Golden Hair]

It is beyond me, how anyone could still not support this war, when you can see so plainly the benefits that are coming out of it for the Iraqi people. Anyone that still believes that country's government should not have been toppled, needs a wake up call.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

America's involved. -shrugs- Simple as that.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thank God they are.

[markedel]

I just hope the U.S can run Iraq as well as they invade it. Baghdad is chaos now-but order will have to be restored, Saddam has to be conclusively found dead (though IMO a few days of silence=death, as he's useless without a regime), and new government will have to be created-all under U.S occupation-an occupation the Arab world will resent. Just ask the Palestinians. Israeli occupation of the West Bank is likely no worse then Jordanian occupation (though the current anti-terror campaign certainly makes it more dangerous), and during times oif relative tranquility was certainly better. But any occupation will be resented by the Arab-what Iraq needs is stable, liberal (in the classical sense), self-government as soon as possible and ample finanial support. If the U.S can do it (which I doubt, but who can tell, one of the joys of the U.S is that it can do unexpected wonders) then the Middle East may have a bright future. If this fails...

[sun-star]

Originally posted by markedel
I just hope the U.S can run Iraq as well as they invade it. Baghdad is chaos now-but order will have to be restored, Saddam has to be conclusively found dead (though IMO a few days of silence=death, as he's useless without a regime), and new government will have to be created-all under U.S occupation-an occupation the Arab world will resent. Just ask the Palestinians. Israeli occupation of the West Bank is likely no worse then Jordanian occupation (though the current anti-terror campaign certainly makes it more dangerous), and during times oif relative tranquility was certainly better. But any occupation will be resented by the Arab-what Iraq needs is stable, liberal (in the classical sense), self-government as soon as possible and ample finanial support. If the U.S can do it (which I doubt, but who can tell, one of the joys of the U.S is that it can do unexpected wonders) then the Middle East may have a bright future. If this fails...

Yes, now comes the hard part. I'm relieved it's gone well so far, but when it comes to installing a new government in Iraq, that's where America (and allies, if they let us be involved) have to tread very carefully.

Oh, and that anti-American article, terrible as it is, becomes almost funny when you see it's by John Pilger. The guy couldn't support America if it was saving him from Saddam Hussain.

[BeardofPants]

Anti-American? Wow. I don't see anything in that article that expressly says "I hate Americans." And resorting to personal attacks? Tsk, tsk.

Gwaimir: That was a cheap comment about the tv shows. I said I liked a lot more than that about America than that.

For the record: I don't think America is evil. Not at all. Cheney (and unilaterialism in general) on the other hand... Check out the link in my signature sometime.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Anti-American? Wow. I don't see anything in that article that expressly says "I hate Americans." And resorting to personal attacks? Tsk, tsk.


__________________________________________________ ____
Lizra replies,

No...it doesn't say "I hate Americans." But if you don't see it as being "anti American", then IMO, you must be blind, or rude. It's as plain as the nose one your face.

[Artanis]

What do you all think about Oriana Fallaci?

[BeardofPants]

I'm sorry you see it that way, Lizra. It comments primarily on US foreign policy, not Americans as a people.

[Lizra]

The two are entwined. American people elect the officials who craft the foreign policy. I would be willing to bet you would be offended to have New Zealand drug through political mud, repeatedly. It's just common sense that you will upset some Americans. I wish you would realize that. We are human beings! Not debate drones!

[Elf Girl]

I am not in the least offended by BoP's article quote. It is in essence what my opinions are as well. It didn't seem Anti-American to me. If revealing the truth about the foreign policy of American-elected officials is Anti-American, then so be it. This kind of thing has to be said.

[Lizra]

Well, It's NOT the truth! (IMO) I'm sorry to hear you believe it! I view spreading lies about America, as that writer has, as anti American, and "over the top" inflamatory. It makes me angry, and that's a fact.

[Elf Girl]

For my benefit, please quote the "lies" in that article.

[Starr Polish]

The thing that gets me about those who are protesting the war:

All I ever hear about from those who are absolutely anti-war is "Pro-war propaganda this, pro-war propaganda that..." and innaccurate accounts of history.

Do they not realize that what they're spouting and what they choose to listen to and believe is also propaganda? It's impossible to get away from that in the more "civilized" nations.

For the record: I am for peace, but I am a realist.

edit: And yes, I realize some anti-war protestors are well versed in their history, but sadly most of the ones I've talked to are not.