03-03-2004, 01:30 PM | #721 | |
Banned
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For me, I'll stick to the evidence at hand (direct or indirect) and connect it to the most probable line of our history. |
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03-03-2004, 04:05 PM | #722 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Yes, I see that you were making a comparison. And quite a bad one, IMO, of course but I hope to get to that sometime this year *sigh - I need more time - how 'bout you?*
This is an entirely different question, tho - do you agree that there has to be SOMETHING that's "uncreated"?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-03-2004, 05:56 PM | #723 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-04-2004, 02:29 AM | #724 | |
Elf Lord
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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03-05-2004, 10:31 AM | #725 | |
Enting
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Katie |
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03-05-2004, 06:30 PM | #726 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Now some of the mechanisms required for evolution might possibly be demonstrated one day, but that doesn't "prove" that evolution happened, either. But as of right now, the main mechanisms required for evolution to have taken place have not ever been demonstrated. And I suppose if the main mechanisms were demonstrated, I would give it a higher possibility of having occurred. But it's just not a big deal to me. My main passion in this area is to make sure that people know that evolution is NOT "proven" by any means, nor are the main mechanisms proven or even observed. So many people think that evolution is "proven", when it is decidedly NOT proven.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-05-2004, 08:25 PM | #727 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-06-2004, 02:33 AM | #728 | |
Elven Warrior
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There truly is little reason to debate weather evolution or creationsim is more legitimate than the other...neither has, or can be properly proven, ultimately it comes down to where a person's faith lies, provided they have faith of some kind...weather they think we are the miraculous by-product of a pile of sludge, or the miraculous by-product of a bored yet well meaning god. *wouldn't you be bored too if you didn't have anything to do?*
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If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
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03-06-2004, 06:03 AM | #729 | |||
Elf Lord
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Pope John-Paul II said: Quote:
Seems to be pretty straightforward that the Pope is accepting evolution as the most probable theory to explain the history and current state of life on Earth. Naturally, as a trained philosopher he realises that any scientific theory, whether quantum theory or the germ theory of disease or the atomic theory of matter, cannot be 'proven' i.e. it must be held tentatively. Nor can he possibly endorse it as "True" in the sense that Revelation (to a Christian ) is true. It would appear that he accepts it in the same way that it is accepted in the scientific community, as far and away the strongest explanation for the "series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge". As for this statement by James Akin : Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 03-06-2004 at 06:08 AM. |
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03-06-2004, 07:27 AM | #730 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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You don't seem to have read the whole thing. The French can be read as either "new knowledge has led to the recognition in the theory of evolution of more than a hypothesis" or "new knowledge has led to the recognition of more than one hypothesis in the theory of evolution." Also, later the Holy Father refers to " rather than THE theory of evolution...SEVERAL theories of evolution". Nowhere that I see does he in fact make any sort of personal statement, but rather he says that the evolutionary theory is not flat-out contradictory to the Catholic faith, and that Catholics are free to believe in special creation or divinely-guided evolution without going against the Church.
Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-06-2004, 04:01 PM | #731 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 03-06-2004 at 04:03 PM. |
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03-06-2004, 09:38 PM | #732 |
Quasi Evil
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And I would say that it likely doesnt come down to miracles one way of the other but instead simple unrelenting statistics. Most likely at least. There may be a more bizare explanation who knows. But in any case the science portion of it doesnt require any faith. Faith is required in beliefs for which there is no measurable evidence.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
03-07-2004, 06:12 AM | #733 |
Elven Warrior
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When you look at it tho, even belief in science has a prerequisite of faith that science is fact....when you boil anything down so long as it relates to what a person believes, it's what they decided to put their faith in. Extreme faith can be seen as fanatasism, lack of faith can be seen as indifference...it's all where it's put, and the level in which it's used.
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If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
03-07-2004, 09:27 AM | #734 | |||
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Quote:
I agree that the Pope does not say that Catholics are required to believe in either evolution or special creationism; I think it is very clear that he is saying that the evidence since the Encyclical of Pius XII "Human Generis" in 1950 has been strongly in favour of evolutionary theory being scientifically correct. . Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 03-07-2004 at 09:29 AM. |
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03-07-2004, 12:36 PM | #735 | |||
Elf Lord
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And note he talks about "several theories of EVOLUTION", not "several theories of origin" or "several theories of creation". Quote:
And, as it becomes clear further on, he's saying that the materialist/naturalist idea that the Universe and life are solely the products of physical forces is unacceptable, and that that particular philosophy must be rejected -but that the evidence for evolution- NOT special creation- is very strong. Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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03-07-2004, 01:09 PM | #736 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-08-2004, 01:34 AM | #737 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(note - "genetic burden" explained over in the creationist thread)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-08-2004, 03:33 AM | #738 | |
Elven Warrior
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__________________
If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
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03-08-2004, 08:27 AM | #739 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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GM: I've read over your post, and I still do not see that this is a personal statement of faith as much as a statement that evolution is directly opposed to Catholic faith.
It's good to see you, by the way.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-08-2004, 11:18 AM | #740 | |
Elf Lord
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You, too-
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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