05-22-2012, 10:59 PM | #721 |
Elf Lord
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Ever note that when it's put to polls, gay marriage is denied and that it takes judicial activism or legislative activism to enforce a minority view on the general populace?
Obama is desperate for votes and "evolved" his view to try to beat Romney by the 1-2.7% gay vote en bloc - if it goes for Obama given the job situation and economy. Note that in the 2007 to 2008 campaign, the O-man went for the conservative side and affirmed marriage as betwixt a man and a woman. Politicians...
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 05-22-2012 at 11:00 PM. Reason: correction of improper key punch in characterization |
05-23-2012, 01:30 PM | #722 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
And as for Obama deciding to officially declare his support for gay marriage, I really dont think that this was done for his political benefit. It was done mostly because Biden opened his fat mouth about it and essentially called out his own President on it. No one who was planning on NOT voting for Obama suddenly had their mind changed because of the statement. Does it shore up his base? Certainly not his black base which was distressed by the statement. And his white non-homosexual base largely doesnt see gay marriage as an important electoral issue (nor does the tea party/libertarian faction on the other side for that matter). And energizing a couple thousand gays in New York and San Francisco to rush out and vote for him when they might not have before seems a ridiculous notion to take such a risk. I think he would have been more than happy to coast to the election without having to make a formal statement on it at all.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 05-23-2012 at 01:33 PM. |
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05-25-2012, 01:35 AM | #723 |
Elf Lord
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Why gay marriage loses in referendums.
1) Support for gay marriage is growing at an amazing rate; ten years ago I figured it would take at least a generation to reach majority support. Support for gay marriage is not only growing, its growing most among younger people. Turnout in general is higher among older voters, and especially so in in primaries and referendums. 2) Commitment. Most people in favour of gay marriage are not gay; it's a feel-good measure: "Sure, they're people too, why not?" Antis, OTOH, tend to be "If this passes, the WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!!!". So, there's an enthusiasm gap. 3) Organisation. Through the Catholic, Mormon, and Fundamentalist Churches the anti-marriage forces have existing wide-reaching organisations which are heavily involved in getting members to the polls and spending large sums of money on swinging the issue. Check back in 5 or 10 years. As for Obama, I assume he was lying about this for the last few years for political reasons, but I think it was less Biden forcing him to come out than the fact that quite a few Democratic state committees were promising to raise a stink about it at the convention. Basically, his hand was forced. I would guess he would have preferred to dodge the issue and not have to support it until after the election; as it turned out it was, if anything, a mild plus.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 05-25-2012 at 01:41 AM. |
05-25-2012, 09:26 AM | #724 |
Elf Lord
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I agree with that, there has been an enormous change in attitudes towards those whose preference is batting for the other team.
Most of that is down to the cumulative courage of millions of individuals coming out in the face of society-wide opprobrium. It's great! |
05-26-2012, 12:34 AM | #725 |
Elf Lord
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Will Maryland be the first?
Currently pro-marriage forces leading 57%-37%, following an amazing shift among black voters after Obama's statement of support. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...ality-maryland
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
06-25-2012, 10:21 PM | #726 |
Elf Lord
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Referendum? Legislative fiat? Judicial activism?
NOT even California voted for it, ya'll. The shift in the black populace after the O man's "endorsemnt" is negligible.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
06-26-2012, 01:26 PM | #727 | ||
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-26-2012, 06:52 PM | #728 |
Elf Lord
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Battling Polls, then, IR!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...VuV_story.html Poll: Obama’s endorsement of gay marriage leaves both sides more entrenched By Associated Press, Published: June 22 WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama’s endorsement of gay marriage appears to have made Americans on both sides of the issue even more entrenched in their positions, firing up his young, liberal backers and intensifying opposition from Republicans and conservatives, according to a new poll. Overall, his announcement last month that he supported gay marriage did little to shift the nation’s views on the subject, with the country remaining evenly divided on it, the Associated Press-GfK survey found. ... In the poll, 42 percent of respondents oppose gay marriage, 40 percent support it and 15 percent are neutral. Last August, the country was similarly divided over whether same-sex couples should be allowed to be legally married in their state, with 45 percent opposing, 42 percent favoring and 10 percent neutral. ...
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 06-26-2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: partial omission of quotation rectified by inclusivity |
06-27-2012, 05:53 AM | #729 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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07-01-2012, 05:23 PM | #730 |
Elf Lord
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That would be a question for the Washington Post. Apparently they needed news for that day..........
On the other hand, culture warriors have used the Pres' "evolution" on the subject (talk about cynical manipulation!) to press their own, so it may be that these facts are like the polls that show Americans believe 25% of the population to be homosexual. (That undoubtedly comes from watching too much TV ...).
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 07-01-2012 at 05:24 PM. Reason: speelin' nazi |
11-07-2012, 04:23 PM | #731 |
Elf Lord
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Any need to add anything?
Oh, wait, it's only a majority of voters. It doesn't count unless it's a super-majority: 60%; 66%; 50.1 of the entire population, not just voters; anyway, those are just a bunch of liberal states, so it's not like real people support it.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
11-07-2012, 04:32 PM | #732 |
Quasi Evil
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So proud of my state that it inspires me to song...
...Come senators, congressmenAnd marijuana legalization passage in Washington and Colorado is certainly another sign of this...
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
11-08-2012, 08:46 PM | #733 |
Deus Ex Machina
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Washington too! The opposition conceded today.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
11-09-2012, 11:15 PM | #734 |
The Black Númenórean
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Wooo!
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Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
11-16-2012, 03:57 AM | #735 |
of the House of Fëanor
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AWESOME.
Now i've got that beautiful Bob Dylan song stuck in my head, thanks Insidious Rex! I just read those lyrics & his voice replays in my head exactly like the song. LOVE!!
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05-15-2013, 12:38 AM | #736 |
Elf Lord
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Add Rhode Island, Delaware and Minnesota.
New Zealand, with Britain and France coming along.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
05-15-2013, 01:15 PM | #737 |
Quasi Evil
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Like flies... Now Im just waiting for when they strike down DOMA sometime this summer and the floodgates really open.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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