10-20-2003, 01:44 PM | #701 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
|
"Actually, it was one human; Moses, who, for those who believe in the Bible in the tiniest degree"
Err. Negative. If you want to do some research the different books may be attributed to Moses, but were actually scribed by many different people over a very long time, not to mention passed down by oral tradition for a significant period of time before THAT. There were in fact many authors... Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I don't think it matters. But no, it wasn't written by Moses, any more than Jesus wrote the new testement...
__________________
I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
10-20-2003, 05:52 PM | #702 | ||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
And a big roll-eyes back at YOU, m'dear Of course I did, and I object to your interpretation. Quote:
And if a majority of voting citizens in the US wish to pass an amendment defining marriage in the US as only between one man and one woman, then THAT will be "part of the law of the land." In our system, the people have a right to do that. Quote:
Quote:
This reminds me of the people that sue their insurance companies to pay for infertility treatments, claiming that they have a RIGHT to have a child, and therefore insurance companies should pay. Do you think that's a right, too? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You claim that homosexuals have an inherent right to a marriage recognized by civil laws. I asked upon what authority you based that claim, and you said the 14th amendment. I say that your interpretation is wrong. BTW, if an amendment is passed saying that marriage is between one man and one woman, have homosexuals then lost their inherent right for a marriage recognized by civil law? Or do laws only count when they agree with your viewpoint, and they're wrong otherwise? And if they agree with MY viewpoint but not yours, then they're still somehow wrong? I'm ready to close this discussion off if you will agree that we have differing opinions on this matter, and we both have a right and responsibility to vote our conscience on this matter, and that matters that involve society are valid things to pass laws about. I think that's what it boils down to. Your claim for inherent rights in this matter is only your interpretation, as your quotes from US law clearly showed.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||||||||
10-20-2003, 06:14 PM | #703 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
|
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RÃ*an
And a big roll-eyes back at YOU, m'dear Of course I did, and I object to your interpretation." It isn't my interpretation. It's the one currently being used by the Supreme Court. "*yawn* yes, I realize that. And if a majority of voting citizens in the US wish to pass an amendment defining marriage in the US as only between one man and one woman, then THAT will be "part of the law of the land." In our system, the people have a right to do that." Yes they do. The other mumbo jumbo in your post is just rehashing lawyer crap and cute responses. You certainly have the right to vote for an amendment that is discriminatory, the same way I'd have the right to vote for an amendment that outlaws religous practice for X type of people, or outlaws free speech for x type individuals. Which, god help me, I could begin to seriously consider now. You've convinced me, you have the right to vote for it. Now lets hear WHY you want to vote for it. What's wrong with it? Or do you need more rope?
__________________
I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
10-20-2003, 06:29 PM | #704 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
I don't think a majority would vote against gay marriage.
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
10-20-2003, 08:13 PM | #705 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
Rian, how would you like you new law to be enforced? Jail time or just a fine? Misdemeanor or felony? Maybe it might even require a new department. How about Dept. of Homeland Insecurity. I noticed you forgot to mention "pursuit of happiness" with "life" and "liberty". Is that a sin of omission?
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
|
10-20-2003, 08:42 PM | #706 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Would you please provide the reference? I don't recall any formal statement about that. Quote:
Now other people honestly believe differently, and that's their right. And BOTH SIDES have the right to vote their conscience on the issue. And it's bully tactics, IMO, as well as unfair, for one side to call the other side names, when it's a matter of opinion. What, specifically, do you think is "mumbo jumbo", BTW? The part that you can't logically refute? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My ONLY interest in THIS particular discussion was discussing the illogical and inappropriate use of the word "intolerant" to label a person that happens to disagree, in all good conscience, with the minority opinion that the definition of marriage should be expanded to include homosexual unions. What would I need rope for, BTW? You're the one that has run out of logical arguments, apparently. Unless you happen to have some rope made of hithlain? I would enjoy some of that elvish rope.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|||||
10-20-2003, 08:44 PM | #707 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Lizra, I would be glad to discuss the reasons behind my opinion with you via email or phone, if you would still like to.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-20-2003, 08:54 PM | #708 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But again, that falls into what voting citizens deem as lawful happiness. For a simple example, killing people might make a person happy, but voting citizens have declared that to be illegal. For an example closer to the issue, polygamy might make some people happy, but voting citizens have declared that to be illegal, too. It's a matter of opinion as to what is right. Personally, I think the def'n of marriage will eventually be expanded to go beyond one man/one woman in the US, and it is the right of the voting citizens to do that. I hope that it will stay one man/one woman, but I doubt it. And I think the consequences will be tragic, especially to children
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 10-20-2003 at 08:56 PM. |
|||
10-20-2003, 09:01 PM | #709 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
10-20-2003, 09:06 PM | #710 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
Quote:
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
|
10-20-2003, 09:08 PM | #711 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Nice post, Gwai And I miss you, too!
I've never understood how people get hung up on the 7 day thing more than the making of the entire universe thing Like there's some amount of time where it would be more feasible for an all-powerful, all-knowing God to make the universe? Perhaps 8 days? I think it would either be "I believe there is a God that can make the universe", or "I don't believe there is a God that can make the universe"; NOT "I can't believe God made the universe in 7 days"! I don't know the answer, of course; neither does anyone with "scientific certainty". And yes, there is indeed poetry and imagery in the Bible (lovely stuff, too! Try Song of Solomon sometimes if you think the Bible is prudish!) But Genesis is written as a history, as far as style is concerned, and I think that it is most probably a literal account. And that's my HO
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-20-2003, 09:10 PM | #712 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
But as you like Hey, did you think (movie) Theodred (Theoden's son) was cute? I wish he and Eomer reversed roles!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
10-20-2003, 09:16 PM | #713 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
Now don't you know I'm HOT for Theoden! Warm, blond, wise cuddly King Theoden! Fur rugs, fine wine, and Lizra!
Sheeana can have Eomer! I do like him when he's mad...which is most of the time! Theodred...I didn't see enough of, he looked like Eomer, sort of. I'll certainly check that out in the x edition!
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 10-20-2003 at 09:18 PM. |
10-20-2003, 09:35 PM | #714 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Eomer's almost really cute - he just needs to trim his 'stache! Whenever I see him, I get this urge to whip out some moustache trimmers and take a bit off his moustache - it's just too long!
Do you have a DVD? I love that "pause" button! Theodred would look better if he weren't almost dead (that just does something to one's looks!) but one can see that he's be awfully cute if he spruced up a bit ....
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-20-2003, 11:37 PM | #715 | |||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
Painfuly so. There aren't many political topics that don't get coverage here in D.C. Many states, yours included, are strongly in favor of equal status. Quote:
It's not that simple. Murder could not be made legal through amendment by popular opinion as it violates the primary protections of the constitution. Quote:
It is unlikely that anything will come from this amendment talk. They don't want to alienate a large minority when they can mollify the larger minority with lip service. Note: No fan girl action here.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
|||
10-20-2003, 11:46 PM | #716 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
10-20-2003, 11:50 PM | #717 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Try the "pause" feature (when he's still alive) if you have a DVD - nice high cheekbones
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
10-21-2003, 01:03 PM | #718 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
10-21-2003, 01:17 PM | #719 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
|
For those of you who support gay marriage, consider: Throughout all history, marriage has been understood to be between man and woman. The only variable has been that in many cultures, the woman part becomes plural - "women". I don't understand our rush to change what has "stood the test of time" so to speak. And I question whether we can begin to understand all the consequences.
Just about any argument made in favor of same-sex marriage could be applied to plural marriage (with much more cultural / human history to support it). Would THIS be seen as a desireable goal in our society (I think most would say not)? If we allow same-sex marriage, do we then allow fringe "Mormon" (I use quotes because they're not part of the official LDS) groups to have multiple wives? Or for Muslim men to have the four wives permitted by their religions? We decided over a century ago that we would not. Do we revisit this one soon? I sympathize with those who consider themselves gay - who want to bind themselves with someone they love. I don't think we fully understand "sexual orientation" though - as a society. And much of what is currently shaping that understanding is totally PC based. I just do not think we should make this change. I think it will cause great confusion - and do us more harm than good as a people. I don't know what the "ultimate" answer is for our society (though I have opinions about a completely ultimate answer) - and don't know what to offer to gays here as an alternative. Alas, my wisdom has its limits. It does seem unwise though for us to move in this particular direction. |
10-21-2003, 01:30 PM | #720 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|