04-04-2003, 11:29 AM | #701 | |
Elf Lord
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a) weapons inspectors would find them (wrong, I think) b) Saddam wouldn't have a chance to use them - this is more problematic; he certainly wouldn't have used them against his neighbors, but he might have used them on his own people(again) to protect himself against an uprising. And he certainly would have been happy to indulge in a little nuclear blackmail, given the chance - of course that means getting a nuke AND a delivery system. As for the ricin, documents, and links to Al'Qaeda- as far as I can tell, all these are coming from the enclave in North- Eastern Iaq controlled by the Al-Ansar group. This area is surrounded on three sides by Kurdish-controlled terrritory, and is contiguous with Iran. In short, it's been out of Saddam's control for years. It seems to me that the Iranians, in spite of their denials, have allowed Al- Qaida militants to pass through Iran, but are too wary to allow them to stay- that nice little patch of territory nominally part of Iraq makes a convenient location. Earlier reports said that many of the Al-Ansar fighters slipped back over the border to Iran, and the Iranians allowed them to move back and forth freely. (I'm sure nobody's seriously suggesting that the Iranians are helping Saddam develop chemical or biological weapons.) So the smoking gun of either WMD or Saddam/bin Laden connections has yet to be found. I'm sure that WMD will be, Al-Qaida links I doubt very much.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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04-04-2003, 11:45 AM | #702 | ||
Elf Lord
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This maybe outdated by the time it gets up, but so far, nope. I'm sure it's out there, though
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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04-04-2003, 10:17 PM | #703 |
The Original Amazonian Coconut
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Just a sort-a related thing, you know how it's now "freedom" fries and toast? Are there "freedom" ticklers now too?
Sorry--it's all really ridiculous...*sigh* *looks for coconuts*
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Hem, hem |
04-05-2003, 12:14 AM | #704 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-05-2003, 02:22 AM | #705 | |
Eccentric Chocolate Crow
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"Yay, economy, yay, schools, yay..." "Let's protest the war!" "What war?" "Nevermind!" I'm kind of assuming you meant something else by that though... tano
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Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson |
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04-05-2003, 02:32 AM | #706 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-05-2003, 03:58 AM | #707 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Well - we're in Baghdad now. So much for the Iraqi's Information Ministers comments that we were "bogged down in the desert and not within 100 miles of Baghdad." I hope the Iraqis really didn't believe their government's propaganda, otherwise they've woken up to a BIG surprise.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
04-05-2003, 11:24 AM | #708 | |
Elf Lord
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Gray Mouser, are you saying that the weapon production papers we've found are evidence that the Kurds or Iranians are in connection with Al'Qaeda and are developing WMDs?
And the gas masks and chemical/biological weapon antidotes were found on enemy troops in battle. So are you saying that the Kurds/Iranians and Saddam Hussein have been developing WMDs? Quote:
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04-05-2003, 09:25 PM | #709 | |
Quasi Evil
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(sorry to the non-americans on here. just had to share that joke. gave me a huge laugh this morning)
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-05-2003, 10:06 PM | #710 |
Eccentric Chocolate Crow
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Hah....
Meself, I be rooting for my home team--go Mariners! Right...uh...back on topic...
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Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson |
04-06-2003, 04:01 AM | #711 | |
High King of Númenórë
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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04-06-2003, 08:07 AM | #712 | |
Elf Lord
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Certainly, gas masks and antidotes are strong indications that you think that somebody is going to use CBW weapons - and I seriously doubt that the Iraqis believe their own propaganda that the coalition is going to. But, no actual WMD. (though, again, I'm sure it's there- it just hasn't been found yet) As for the Kurds/Iranians developing CBWs; I'll try and clarify as much as I can see of a confusing situation The area where the weapons were being developed was under the control of Ansar al-Islam (Pillar of Islam), which is a very small group (800-1000 fighters) apparently indigenous to the area- local militant Islamic Kurds, fighting the U.S.-allied PUK, who have been reinforced by Al-Qaeda fighters from other countries. So when you say "the Kurds", well, this small group of Kurds has been hosting Al-Qaeda fighters. It is Al-Qaeda who established the laboratories in the al-Ansar enclave (this was in Colin Powell's presentation to the Security Council),and they are the ones who who are developing CBWs -for terror operations, not for the war in Iraq . And I think they must have been allowed allowed free passage through Iran, in spite of Iranian denials. As for the Iranians, any WMD they're developing (and they are certainly trying for nukes) they are developing in Iran. The question then is, do the labs in Kurdistan have any ties to Saddam? This is the part where I'm skeptical. Is my meaning clear (as mud)?
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 04-06-2003 at 08:25 AM. |
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04-06-2003, 10:19 AM | #713 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Sure, that's more clear now. You're saying a group of Kurds created those documents, financed by and in connection to Al'Qaeda.
Thanks for clarifying that. Oh yes, I'm sorry but I can't post that article for you. I heard it all over the news two or three days ago, and they showed clips of the documents. |
04-06-2003, 10:57 AM | #714 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
I doubt the local Kurds have the skills.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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04-06-2003, 03:20 PM | #715 |
High King of Númenórë
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They have also found stuff in Southern and Western Iraq now too, so it is starting to open up a bit as well. Also, they did some water testing in the Euphrates River and it shows high concentrations of Cyanide and Mustard Gas. Central Command isn't sure yet where it is coming from. But, imo, seeing concentrations in those two substances, it doesn't matter where the heck it is coming from, it is just another piece of the puzzle....
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
04-09-2003, 04:54 AM | #716 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Well - it seems as if the regime of Hussein is dead, if not Hussein himself. It's not official yet - but at least the media minders didn't show up today for work, no press conference from the "Information" Minister, Iraqi checkpoints have been abandoned, not politcal or Iraqi military to be seen around Baghdad.
People are running through Baghdad pulling down pictures of Hussein, along with looting of the government buildings. People are cheering in the streets. Now I guess soon the next phase will begin - to establish a new government and return law and order (without the torture and brutality).
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
04-09-2003, 06:32 AM | #717 | |
the Shrike
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We See Too Much. We Know Too Much. That's Our Best Defence. --- John Pilger.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 04-09-2003 at 06:41 AM. |
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04-09-2003, 06:34 AM | #718 | |
the Shrike
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Continued below Baby K's comment (thanks :))...
Quote:
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 04-09-2003 at 06:38 AM. |
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04-09-2003, 06:35 AM | #719 |
Corruptor
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Excellent quote BoP!
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
04-09-2003, 06:35 AM | #720 | |
the Shrike
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Cont....
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 04-09-2003 at 06:42 AM. |
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