Tolkien's Languages

[Falagar]

*smacks head* sorry about that... Posting without thinking and mixing stuff up, typical.

How about, for some variation from the corpus:
Aur vaer - Good morning
Aduial vaer - Good evening

Not entirely sure about the mutilations though...

[Elvengirl]

I looked in a language of Middle Earth book and yes, "vedui" means "last", and it's funny because it was on a role player site where I was told it means hello. anywho...

not a problem Falagar....

I looked up the 'good morning' and 'good evening', but there was no mention of either 'aur' means day or sunlight in Sinadrin, but that was all it said. I think I need a better book. Or maybe I'll just stick with 'mae govannen'.

[Falagar]

'vaer' is a lenited form of 'maer' (can't remember the name of the lenitation, though).

[cian]

If it's Ruth Noel's book I would be cautious about the Elvish, as her work is quite outdated now. She indeed lists 'vedui' as 'last', and not to be technical but medui may mean 'last'.

In Sindarin initial v- may be from m- or b-, but the words should really be listed in unmutated form.

barad 'tower'
i varad 'the tower'

In short there are various kinds of mutations in Sindarin (similar can be found in Welsh for example). Na vedui is likely an example of a mutation called lenition or softening, as is the example i varad

¤

[Elvengirl]

Ach, I don't have the book with me.

What you both say makes sense. Thanks.
So Falagar what would be the translation for 'maer'?


Looks like I have a reason to visit the book store.

[Falagar]

_maer_ means 'fit, good' (of things). _mae_ is more 'well', as in being well.

I've completely forgotten all the mutations except from lenitation and mixed mutation since I last read anything on Sindarin...and I wasn't even very good in the beginning.

[Elvengirl]

Hey that's ok I don't usually remeber that stuff unless I use it a lot.

Thank's for your help and Aur Vaer to you.

[Elvengirl]

Cian, that book I was using was Ruth Noel's, so thanks for the warning, I'll find a better book.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
This thread is growing... this is good.

Do either Cian or Valandil speak Elvish?

Oops - you asked this LONG ago! I don't speak Elvish... I've just managed to learn a few root prefixes and suffixes... and sometimes I'll look up a few more.

Cian appears to know his (her?) stuff.

[Ornelírë Mistë]

Enutuulien.

That brings up a good question:
en means "re-", tul= come, how to do perfect tense? entuulie? enutuulie?

[Falagar]

Right.

*dusts off thread before gently starting to weave*

Any Metallica-fans out there? Any E.A.Poe-fans out there? I have a few new translations, aiquen harya cuilë iquista nanquetë.

Fade to black
Firilë mórenna
Fading to black

Life it seems, will fade away
Cuilë séyas, firuva
Life it seems, will fade
Drifting further every day
Lutula lil haira ilya rë
Floating more far every day
Getting lost within myself
Léncanye selmanya
I am loosing my will
Nothing matters no one else
Munta selyalë, úquen
Nothing [has] meaning, no one
I have lost the will to live
Eléncien selma cuilen
I have lost [the] will for life
Simply nothing more to give
Ahárien munta lil anta
I have nothing more to give
There is nothing more for me
*Ëa munta lil an ni
[i]There is nothing more for me[/b]
Need the end to set me free
Maurin i metta lerya ni
I need the end to release me


Things are not what they used to be
I cuilë úna i neryë
The life is not that [which] it was
Missing one inside of me
Eléncien quen mi nin
I have lost one inside me
Deathly lost, this can't be real
Qualinvë vanwa úpolë ná anwa
Deathly lost it can't be real
Cannot stand this hell I feel
Tevin nwalma i tenyan
I hate the pain I feel
Emptiness is filling me
Muntawë quáta nin
Nothingness is filling me
To the point of agony
Mentenna qualmëo
To [the] point of agony
Growing darkness taking dawn
Mórë lauyala untúpa ára
Growing darkness is covering dawn
I was me, but now He's gone
Nén ni, mal si nás vanwa
I was me, but now he is gone


No one but me can save myself, but it's too late
Úquen hequa ni polë #etelehta ni mal acca telwa
No one but me can save myself but it's too late
Now I can't think, think why I should even try
Si úpolin sana, sana tyarwë an carala sa
Now I can't think, think reason for doing it
Yesterday seems as though it never existed
Tellarë séya vë úcarnë ëa
Yesterday seems like [it] didn't exist
Death greets me warm, now I will just say good-bye
Qualmë suilar ni, si quetuvan er mára mesta
Death greets me, now I will only say goodbye

[Falagar]

The Unforgiven II
I Úvatyaina II
The Unforgiven II

Lay beside me
Caita ara nin
Lay beside me
Tell me what they’ve done
Nyara nin i acáriet
Tell to me that [which] they have done
Speak the words I wanna hear
Queta quettar merin hlarë
Speak [the] words I want to hear
To make my demons run
Ya caruva rauconyar autar
Which will make my demons go away
The door is locked now
I ando pahtaina si
The gate [is] closed now
But it’s open if you’re true
Mal pantuvas ai nál voronda
But it will open if you're faithful
If you can understand the me
Ai polil hanya ni
If you can understand me
Then I can understand the you
San polin hanya le
Then I can understand you

Lay beside me
Caita ara nin
Lie beside me
Under wicked sky
Undu ulco vilya
Under wicked sky
The black of day
I mórë aureva
The black of night
Dark of night
Lómeo mornië
Night's darkness
We share this paralyze
Nammë yúyo halcinu
We are both frozen
The door cracks open
I ando palyëa
The door is opening
But there’s no sun shining through
Mal ú Anar sÃ*la ter
But no sun is shining through
Black heart scarring darker still
Órë morna rista lil morna er
Black heart cutting more dark still
But there’s no sun shining through
Mal ú Anar sÃ*la ter
But no sun is shining through
No, there’s no sun shining through
Ú Anar sÃ*la ter
No sun is shining through
No, there’s no sun shining
Ú Anar sÃ*la
No sun is shining

What I’ve felt
I eténiën
What I've felt
What I’ve known
I sinten
What I knew
Turn the pages
Yessë vinya
A new beginning
Turn the stone
A leryal vanwië
Release [the] past
Behind the door
Ca i andon
Behind the gate
Should I open it for you?
Ai pantanyes len?
If I open it for you?

Yeah
What I've felt
What I’ve known
Sick and tired
Laiv' ar lumba
Sick and weary
I stand alone
Tyulin eressë
I stand alone
Could you be there
Poluval tulë nin
Could you come for me
’cause I’m the one who waits for you
An nán er i len larta
For I am [the] one who waits for you
Or are you unforgiven too?
Var nál yando úvatyaina?
Or are you also unforgiven?

Come lay beside me
Tula caita ara nin
Come lay beside me
This won’t hurt, I swear
Únwalyuvaryel, ná vére
It won't pain you, [that] is [an] oath
She loves me not
Ú-meliryen
She loves me not
She loves me still
Meliryen er
She loves me still
But she’ll never love again
Mal úmeluvas ata
But she will never love again
She lay beside me
Caitas ara nin
She lay beside me
But she’ll be there when I’m gone
Mal nauvas Ã*rë vanwa nán
But she will be when gone I am
Black heart scarring darker still
Órë morna rista lil morna er
Black heart cutting more dark still
Yes, she’ll be there when I’m gone
Nauvas Ã*rë vanwa nán
She will be when gone I am
Yes, she’ll be there when I’m gone
Nauvas Ã*rë vanwa nán
She will be when gone I am
Dead sure she’ll be there
Nán tanca nauvas
I'm sure she'll be

What I've felt
What I’ve known
Turn the pages
Turn the stone
Behind the door
Should I open it for you?

What I’ve felt
What I’ve known
Sick and tired
I stand alone
Could you be there
’cause I’m the one who waits for you
Or are you unforgiven too?

Lay beside me
Caita ara nin
Lie beside me
Tell me what they’ve done
Nyara nin acárien
Tell to me [what] I've done
The door is closed, so are your eyes
I ando puhtaina, vë hendulyat
The gate [is] closed, like your eyes
But now I see the sun
Mal si cenin Anar
But now I see the sun
Now I see the sun
Si cenin Anar
Now I see the sun
Yes, now I see it
Anwa, si ceninyes
True, now I see it

Oh, what I’ve felt
Oh, what I’ve known
Turn the pages
Turn the stone
Behind the door
Should I open it for you?

Yeah
What I’ve felt
What I’ve known
So sick and tired
Tér laiv' ar lumba
So sick and weary
I stand alone
Could you be there
’cause I’m the one who waits
The one who waits for you
I er i len larta
The one who for you waits

Oh
What I’ve felt
What I’ve known
Turn the pages
Turn the stone
Behind the door
Should I open it for you?
So I dub thee unforgiven
Sië estanyel úvatyaina
Thus I name you unforgiven

Oh, what I’ve felt
Oh, what I’ve known
I take this key
Leptan patil sina
I pick up this key
And I bury it in you
Ar antanyes len
And I give it to you
Because you’re unforgiven too
An nál yando úvatyaina
For you are also unforgiven
Never free
Tennoio ú lera
Forever not free
Never me
Tennoio únin
Forever not me
’cause you’re unforgiven too
An nál yando úvatyaina
For you are also unforgiven

[Falagar]

At last, the Poe one (not much, maybe I'll do some more later):

Yet if hope has flown away
Mal ai estel iwÃ*lië oa,
But if hope has flown away
In a night or in a day
Lómessë var auressë,
In a night or in a day,
In a vision, or in none
Oloressë, var mi muntan,
In a vision, or in nothing
Is it therefore the less gone?
Nás an i tyarwë mis vanwa?
Is it for that reason less gone?
Is all we see and seem
Ná ilya celmë var ilya séyalmë
Is all we see and all we seem
Just a dream within a dream?
Er olórë mi olórë?
Just a dream within a dream?

[Earniel]

Wow, Falagar, you obviously have seas of time on your hands.

I like the last poem, sounds pretty, both in English and Quenya.

*pause*

That was quenya, wasn't it?

[Falagar]

I did the first one between 2 and 4 AM, the other ones sometime during the middle of the day. It's in honour of the very unofficial Norwegian Tolkien-convention we're having tomorrow.



...and that was Quenya.

[Elemmírë]

Hm. So this is where you were telling me to go, Falagar?

I should be studying Japanese... but why practice Japanese when you could start learning Quenya instead!

I was trying to begin a poem by Raleigh... but I'd rather know how many hideous mistakes are in it before I get much further... Falagar? Wayfarer? Anyone else I don't know about yet...?

If all the world and love were young,
Mai ilyë Arda ar melmë ner vinyar,
If all the Earth and love were young,

And truth in every shepherd's tongue,
Ar anwar quettar mi ilyë mavor lambarya,
And true words within every shepherd his tongue,

These pretty pleasures might me move
Sinar vanyar alasser rúman
These beautiful joys move me

To live with thee and be thy love.
Maruvan ólë ar ná melisselya.
I abide with thee and be thy love.

*ahem*

Help!

[Falagar]

As it's 3 AM or so in the morning and I'm dead tired I wouldn't lay to much weight on my comments (nor on my old translations, none of them particulary good. ); not that I have many anyway. Beautifully done.

Originally Posted by Elemmire

To live with thee and be thy love.
Ëa ólë ar ëa melisselya.
To be with thee and be thy love.

'Ëa' is more like the spanish "hay" or english "exists" ("there is/are"), 'ná' I think would be better.

[Elemmírë]

Hantanyel! Panyanyes.

(is that right for "I fix it"?)

[edited] How do you say guest...

an entë nar ilyë nóme!

[Elemmírë]

Inyë ná quanta ormëo. Tengwar, utúvienyes. Sé coanya ëaryë. Nán sé Entmoot úëaryë. Inyë ná quanta ormëo. Nurvingiel carrya uryanë.

Yes. I'm mad.

Yes. I'm ranting.

No. I have no idea what I just wrote.

[Elf Girl]

*very gently pokes this thread*

Hallo. I hardly ever visit Entmoot, but I remember this thread- I used to come here with the aid of a Quenya-English dictionary and the Ardalabion and try to see what everyone is saying.

Anyway, I'm learning Sindarin. I swear I'll actually learn it this time, and not reread the first lesson over and over and say I'm learning.

So I thought I'd bump this thread up to the top, it hasn't been abandoned /that/ long, after all. In a while, perhaps I'll be able to converse in it too.