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01-13-2006, 05:30 PM
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#681 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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01-13-2006, 05:49 PM
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#682 |
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Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Well sure. The emporer was the devil. And Darth was the fallen christ. And Luke was the resurected christ who only through him could the father be saved. And in the end he was. And we had the father, son and obi's ghost.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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01-13-2006, 05:51 PM
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#683 | |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
 That's why I specifically did NOT say THEY were "entirely and completely evil" themselves; I said they were "doing bad things and need to be stopped". And the good guys (or FOGALs, as we call them in our rpg) certainly seemed to have NO problem with calling some of the things Vader and the emperor were doing "evil" or "wrong" or other such bothersome, absolute-y terms, and NO problem doing whatever could be done to stop them. Riiiiiiiiiiight?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun!  Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-13-2006, 05:55 PM
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#684 |
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Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Sense of humor alert...
 So can we explore the Theology of Star Wars then?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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01-13-2006, 06:07 PM
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#685 |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Hey, you responded to my comment seriously with "Actually the "good guys" knew that Darth Vader wasnt entirely and completely evil. And that redemption could occur..."
why can't I respond to YOUR comment seriously without triggering SOH alarms? (prob. because I'm right and you have no other defense except to claim lack of SOH? )I think that Star Wars "sith" line is one of those lines that SOUND reeeeeeeally intelligent and profound (and can lead to some grave errors) but completely falls apart upon examination; therefore IMHO  it should be commented on so people can see how self-contradictory it is. And I agree with what you said, btw, that "Actually the "good guys" knew that Darth Vader wasnt entirely and completely evil. And that redemption could occur..." - that's why I worded my post the way I did (and speaking of SOH, your "obi-ghost" was really funny! Did you make that one up?)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-13-2006, 06:20 PM
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#686 | |
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Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
Actually Lief had already countered my point and I had used his counter as an opportunity to flesh out the FICTION that is Star Wars into a pseudo christian allegory one liner. Ha ha. Debate ended. No need to reattack after one concedes a point by use of transitioning the point into an opportunity for humor rather then argument. But THEN you come running in with your post yelling and over analyzing about how I should have interpreted your post. And thats why you needed to be given a sense of humor alert.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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01-13-2006, 10:32 PM
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#687 | |||
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Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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I-Rex-FICTION that is starwars? you're making me want to change my avatar well not really. ha "obi's ghost" nice one dude, if you don't mind I think i'll use that one myself..Rian- you are way right the jedi accuse of us of having absolutes, ARE YOU KIDDING the sith as an order can't afford absolutes, its the highest bidder and the most power for us, not so with the jedi, they get all bent out of shape if you want to use force lightning and kill sand people, not only that, misguided souls like Mace Windu believe loyalty democracy and freedom are the answers to the Republics strife, fool that he is, the EMPIRE solves all of the problems the Republic had and....oh yeah sorry for the political propaganda, but anyway to set the record straight the sith don't give a rip about absolutes thats the jedi talk to them about absolutes. 
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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01-13-2006, 10:40 PM
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#688 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Okay, I personally think the Star Wars theology/philosophy is really out of place in this topic. There are two points I would like very much to make in response to Rohirrim about Star Wars, but as I think this isn't the thread for it, I'll make a new one in the Star Wars forum.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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01-16-2006, 12:05 PM
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#689 | |
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Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-16-2006, 01:57 PM
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#690 |
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Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: College!
Posts: 1,976
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What were we talking about anyways?
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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01-16-2006, 02:35 PM
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#691 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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01-16-2006, 04:00 PM
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#692 | |
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Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
i personally believe that the teachings stand on their own, no matter who they were delivered by... though i think a few disagree
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-16-2006, 04:29 PM
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#693 | |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Who made you the debate arbitrator? Certainly not me! I'm not online all the time and if I see something when I log on that I want to respond to, then I will Your post was in response to mine, and I couldn't help that I was offline when you and Lief had your posts, so when I saw that you apparently misinterpreted my post I thought I would correct it, because to me it's a critical distinction between a person's actions and a person. I enjoyed your joke, but I also wanted to correct something that I thought you had misunderstood in my post. I agree with you that "Actually the "good guys" knew that Darth Vader wasnt entirely and completely evil. And that redemption could occur...", but the "actually" was what I was objecting to, since its use implies that you were correcting something I was saying, and you weren't because I didn't say it. If that makes sense What I was saying was that some of their ACTIONS were evil, and the good guys didn't seem to have any trouble being absolute about that. I just love calling relativists out when they're being absolute
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 01-16-2006 at 04:31 PM. |
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01-16-2006, 04:42 PM
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#694 |
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An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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TAKE A DEEP BREATH -EVERYONE
let's not get too steamed up, lest you violate Moot Rules
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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01-16-2006, 05:07 PM
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#695 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
By accepting my point, he acknowledged that there are absolutes in Star Wars. So I think that that would conclude that particular line of debate, don't you?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 01-16-2006 at 05:10 PM. |
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01-16-2006, 05:09 PM
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#696 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Quote:
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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01-16-2006, 05:17 PM
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#697 | |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
IRex and I often misunderstand each other, and I don't like for those misunderstandings to stand, because then people have false ideas about a person, which is a bad thing IMO. I've had people say the weirdest things about me and what they think I believe, and they're totally wrong! I want to know what IRex thinks, and I want him to know what I think, and I want any misunderstandings to be cleared up. That's what I was trying to do.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-16-2006, 05:28 PM
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#698 | |
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Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
ideas can be appreciated for their own sake if you just give it a chance... the point is not whether or not jesus was a liar, or even existed for that matter... the point is that the facts just don't matter... the words stand on their own, even today... that is why they are powerful, because they make sense and why the parts of the bible that don't particularly make that much sense are not quite so powerful these days
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-16-2006, 05:31 PM
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#699 |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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make sense to whom? The majority? ahh, but you don't like majority rules (unless you agree with that particular issue...) The enlightened? But how do we determine who is enlightened if truth is relative?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-16-2006, 05:36 PM
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#700 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Quote:
I disagree, but then you knew that. However, if I were to accept your view for argument's sake, kill you because you annoy me with your views, and then revert to absolute relativism, should I have to do penance or get the Congressional Medal? after all, maybe what you are saying does have some reality, check out this site: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/07/word.contest.ap/ I think you are full of truthiness, BJ.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 01-16-2006 at 06:04 PM. |
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