10-03-2006, 08:14 PM | #681 | |
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10-03-2006, 08:32 PM | #682 |
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I'm going to disagree with you there, Ri. The way I see it, the mother has already lived for a while, while the infant hasn't truly. So, if you have to choose between the two, I say save the child.
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10-03-2006, 08:51 PM | #683 |
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Ditto, Gwai...and perhaps it's what the mother herself wanted...? To save her child? *thinks of Oliver Twist*
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10-03-2006, 08:54 PM | #684 |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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in that case...is the whole "mother's life in danger" thing manslaughter or murder? I say manslaughter. yes, you are killing someone, but it is only self-defense. it is pardonable in my book.
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10-03-2006, 09:21 PM | #685 |
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I really don't think that qualifies as self-defense.
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10-03-2006, 09:23 PM | #686 | |
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10-03-2006, 09:36 PM | #687 |
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The infant is not going to kill you.
Self-defense: "2. a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:" There is no physical attack involved.
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10-03-2006, 09:37 PM | #688 | |
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10-03-2006, 09:46 PM | #689 |
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That is not an attack.
"–noun 9. the act of attacking; onslaught; assault. 10. a military offensive against an enemy or enemy position." "–verb (used with object) 1. to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: He attacked him with his bare hands. 2. to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy" (also, note that "transitive verb" is apparently out of use).
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10-03-2006, 09:49 PM | #690 | |
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it isn't a willful action but it DOES result in harm to the host (mother) I do think the Chruch supports this case. |
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10-03-2006, 09:53 PM | #691 |
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I'm fairly certain not, unless there is no hope of saving the child.
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10-03-2006, 10:01 PM | #692 | ||
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If giving birth meant that the mother would certainly die, is the mother required to sacrifice her life for her child?
I know you'd point out why should the child sacrifice its life for the mother, but this is another reason why I assert that, as the foetus is part of the mother's body, she is allowed to make this decision.
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10-03-2006, 10:34 PM | #693 | |
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10-03-2006, 10:36 PM | #694 | ||
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10-03-2006, 10:53 PM | #695 | |
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The problem with 2 as an acceptable option is that it involves killing one innocent person to save another. The baby is not trying to kill the mother, so he or she is innocent of any crime.
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10-03-2006, 10:59 PM | #696 | ||
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A baby would never consciously try to kill it's mother. I believe that a child cannot sin before it has reached the age of reason which I think is around 7 or 8. |
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10-03-2006, 11:40 PM | #697 |
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Arda Marred indeed, I agree. I don't agree with you about it being impossible for a child to sin before the age of 7 or 8, but as that's irrelevant to the subject of abortion, we'd probably best just let that lie .
In that case, (forgive me if I'm being a complete idiot or missing something big right now- my brain is completely fried because of stress) it looks to me as though those who are pro-life on this site are really united on this issue. I haven't seen anyone posting here who is pro-life and also thinks that it is valid to kill the child to save his or her mother. I only mention this because Gaffer earlier was thinking (based, I think, on his personal experience) that most pro-life people believe the other way. Oof. I'm going now- my brain is 100% melted.
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10-04-2006, 12:38 AM | #698 | |||
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WRT the debate about having an abortion where the mother's life is threatened by the possible birth of the foetus, if she is not required to risk her life, then she should be allowed to have an abortion. This refers to a case where either the mother or the baby would live, but not both.
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10-04-2006, 01:39 AM | #699 | |
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10-04-2006, 04:00 AM | #700 |
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Wow, lots to answer.
You'll have to forgive me as I have real life to attend to. Normal service should be resumed within 24 hours. Thanks all, though, for a stimulating and respectful discussion. |
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