Science

[Insidious Rex]

Why doesnt that article say exactly HOW big they are anywhere?

[Earniel]

Not to my knowledge, but I ended up googling the photographer mentioned, and he has pictures on his site.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Nautipus

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...ernationalnews

Almost sounds like a joke, dunnit?

Doesn't mean much. Chimps have been known to be opportunistic eaters, so it's not much of a stretch to apply this behaviour to these apes as well.

[Nautipus]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Doesn't mean much. Chimps have been known to be opportunistic eaters, so it's not much of a stretch to apply this behaviour to these apes as well.

Opportunistic feeders, yes, but not hunting other predators. This behavior is very unique.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfmg53kPJMg

This here caught my eye. It would be pretty neat if they could bring this out into production.

[BeardofPants]

What are you talking about? They've been known to hunt & feed on their own kind. Rare, but it happens.

[Nautipus]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

What are you talking about?

Chimpanzee-ish thingies.

They've been known to hunt & feed on their own kind. Rare, but it happens.

I know, as I said several posts up. But they have NOT been known to hunt large predators, and certainly not big cats. And (as stated in the article) they do not know yet if they do, they only saw one animal eating the remains of a leopard, they dont know if the ape killed it.

[Count Comfect]

Given the history of people looking at human fossil sites and assuming the humans must have successfully hunted big cats only to find it was scavenging/the cats were trying to eat the humans, I would be skeptical this was anything but an already-dead find until we see a lot more of this behavior from the chimps. That said, good to know they're so flexible, food-wise.

[Nautipus]

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

Given the history of people looking at human fossil sites and assuming the humans must have successfully hunted big cats only to find it was scavenging/the cats were trying to eat the humans, I would be skeptical this was anything but an already-dead find until we see a lot more of this behavior from the chimps. That said, good to know they're so flexible, food-wise.

Could you post a link, please? I hadnt heard about this.

But that is basically my point, the only observed behavior was of a single animal eating the remains of a leopard, no hunting, no collaboration. We do not know enough yet to label them so, only to speculate.

[Count Comfect]

It's actually something still being actively discussed in archaeological circles; for instance, I commend to you "Early Hominid Hunting and Scavenging:A Zooarcheological Review" by Dominguez-Rodrigo and Pickering in Evolutionary Anthropology (2003) and, to go more directly to the source, Lewis Binford's book "Bones: Ancient Men and Modern Myths" from I believe 1981.

It is remarkably hard to find evidence online outside of academic journals discussing this hypothesis, but to avoid merely providing academic sources, I'll link to this: http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1156792.htm, which, although it showcases a professor arguing against the scavenging hypothesis, includes him mentioning that the scavenging hypothesis is "the most common" current hypothesis.

[Nautipus]

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

It's actually something still being actively discussed in archaeological circles; for instance, I commend to you "Early Hominid Hunting and Scavenging:A Zooarcheological Review" by Dominguez-Rodrigo and Pickering in Evolutionary Anthropology (2003) and, to go more directly to the source, Lewis Binford's book "Bones: Ancient Men and Modern Myths" from I believe 1981.

It is remarkably hard to find evidence online outside of academic journals discussing this hypothesis, but to avoid merely providing academic sources, I'll link to this: http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1156792.htm, which, although it showcases a professor arguing against the scavenging hypothesis, includes him mentioning that the scavenging hypothesis is "the most common" current hypothesis.

Thank you very much Count Comfect. The link is really enlightening. I hadnt heard that particular argument before, concerning the scavenging behavior of early hominids. But, I suppose, it is possible that they hunted using those tools, whereas here, I see it as less likely. Possible, definately, but far less likely to occur. I will definately have to find these texts you've recomended, and maybe I'll find more concerning the issue.

On the subject of the mystery apes; there is a wikipedia article that concerns them here, that tells more about them. They really do resemble Michael Crichton's creatures in his book Congo. Insidious Rex, this article talks more about their overall dimensions.

[Nerdanel]

finally: after years and years of having the equipment needed, but not the possibility to use them, scientists can now get federal funding for stem cell research in the us. i don't dare to be too hopeful when it comes to obama, but he seems to have a much, much better attitude to science than his predecessor - he doesn't seem to think science is the Enemy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7929690.stm

[Insidious Rex]

Not to worry. Obama is light years ahead of Bush on Science issues. That era is most definitely over thank god...

And since we were just talking about chimps: Chimp plots against tormentors. Perhaps clear evidence that chimps exhibit the same kind of long term abstract higher thinking that we only assume humans are capable of? Heavens! Next theyll be telling us Chimps can do ALL man like things like kill for fun and invent deities to worship!

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

kill for fun and invent deities to worship!

*Shudders* That reminds me of the Planet of the Apes

[The Gaffer]

Did you read what they did to the poor bugger in reward? Castrated him.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...stones-science

"Ah bless, see how the animal develops human-style intelligence. Cut his balls off." How typical a human response.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

It's too bad that humans have the same system for themselves. Look at the reproduction rates for idiots vs geeks.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

It's too bad that humans have the same system for themselves. Look at the reproduction rates for idiots vs geeks.

My God, she's right. O_o


Wait, but we don't do that to everyone who's advancing society. I mean, they don't do it to singers...

[inked]

A very imaginative attribution of consciousness to a behavior. One might think that the chimp has trained the humans............................................ ......

By the by, don't chimps and other animals exhibit tool use in obtaining food? I seem to remember some amazing tool usage experiments to enable obtaining bananas for chimps. Aren't stones a tool like that in this case?

Just wondering.......

[BeardofPants]

No, of course not! *cough*castrato*cough*

[Count Comfect]

Chimps, some birds, and a few other creatures have been seen to use tools. Chimps will strip sticks to poke into anthills and get ants, break nuts with rocks, etc. They don't seem to be able to make stone tools though (thank goodness).

[The Gaffer]

Crows are your beast. Corvids.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...crowtools.html There was a similar study in Oxford.

They are sneaky buggers as well, and know it:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-of-crows.html