11-24-2004, 05:33 PM | #681 |
Elf Lord
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Okay. Bye .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
11-24-2004, 06:04 PM | #682 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I think you need to think about the motives of the writers. Luke, the author of the gospel of Luke, actually stated his motive : Quote:
And one of the REALLY unique things about the Bible is that many of the accounts were written in the lifetime of eyewitnesses, whereas in books like the Koran, the biography of Muhammad was not written until a century later. This is VERY unique and important, IMO. And as Strobel's book points out, we have copies of the Bible starting from within a couple of generations from the writing of the originals, whereas in the case of other ancient texts, it's between 5 and 8 centuries.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 06:10 PM | #683 | |
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As Lief and I pointed out, one needs to look at these writings in terms of ancient literature, and apply standard tests to them. And the Bible is just in a class by itself in this regard. Hobbit once said that he could write a book and say he was God and it would be on par with the Bible. Well, I hope he tries it and then submits it to the same type of literary tests that the Bible is subjected to, then he'll see it's doesn't stand up at all.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 06:47 PM | #684 |
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All I've been protesting about is the validity test. I mean, this validity is not, IMO, a valid concern. If it were, the Baha'i would have the lion's share of validity since Baha'ullah's beautiful poetry was written about 150 years ago.
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11-24-2004, 06:50 PM | #685 |
Elf Lord
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To those of us that live our lives according to the Bible, believing it to the infallible Word of God, validity is a very very valid concern .
Also I will quickly add, the people described in the Bible believed it to be the infallible Word of God too. Jesus believed it was and said so. The Apostle Paul believed so. It was the common belief back then, which is why many significant and useful books, such as perhaps the Book of Enoch, did not qualify as part of the Bible.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 11-24-2004 at 06:52 PM. |
11-24-2004, 06:57 PM | #686 | |
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IMO, this whole validation thing is the very cause of so many people turning away from wisdom these days. They know the world isn't flat, so they throw out the baby with the bathwater. And I'll add before I run... I think people should live their lives according to the wisdom they find in scriptures regardless of the historical accuracy. Last edited by Elfhelm : 11-24-2004 at 07:03 PM. |
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11-24-2004, 07:11 PM | #687 |
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There's a lot that would be lost if one took away the infallibility of the scripture, and it WAS infallible. Of course, if your view is correct and the scripture is fallible, then we'd lose nothing by acknowledging the existence of fictitious elements.
Can't you see that claiming the Bible to be partly fictitious if it isn't would severely weaken the book? It would mean we could choose to disbelieve something in it that we dislike. The Bible no longer would serve as a perfect guide to truth. It would serve as an imperfect guide, as are the many other religious texts out there. As it says in the scripture, "if a blind man leads a blind man, will they not both fall into a pit?" I might be putting my trust in a part of the Bible that's fictitious. I might be following the blind man. If I follow the Bible's teaching and am correct that the Bible is infallible, I am following a man with sight rather then a blind man, or a partially blind man, perhaps.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
11-24-2004, 07:14 PM | #688 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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11-24-2004, 07:15 PM | #689 | |||||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 07:20 PM | #690 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 07:23 PM | #691 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 07:26 PM | #692 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 07:28 PM | #693 | |
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And I'm done with page 31!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 07:30 PM | #694 | ||
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If someone who is slightly delusional says love thy neighbour as thyself, would you still not think this was wise? IIRC Judaism says that Jesus is very holy, and to Muslims Jesus is an important prophet, though neither religions says he's the Son of God.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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11-24-2004, 07:48 PM | #695 | |
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And again, my main argument comes from the Bible itself - the book of Romans, chpt. 1, and the claim all over the Bible that God is just, and also the fact that God Himself declared Abraham as made righteous by FAITH, and Abraham didn't know who Jesus was. And even tho Abraham didn't know who Jesus was and that He was born in Bethlehem, for example, yet Abraham WAS saved BY what Jesus was to do in the future. IOW, those who were saved by faith BEFORE Jesus was born were saved "on credit", as it were - God knew Jesus would be good for the debt
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 07:50 PM | #696 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Truth is truth, no matter where it comes from. If a delusional man says love your neighbor as yourself, then this is truth, because it matches up with what God says. However, if a delusional man said "if you jump off this 10-story building, you'll bounce back up and be just fine", then I doubt if you'd take his advice. The point is that there are certain claims that Jesus makes where it is very important indeed to make an evaluation whether or not He's delusional.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 07:56 PM | #697 | |
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11-24-2004, 07:57 PM | #698 | |
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Heaven is the same way. IMO, the evidence points to it existing, altho we cannot at this time physically see it. And I"m out of gas! I'm at the bottom of page 33. I need a break - it's nice talking with all of you guys, tho!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 08:06 PM | #699 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 08:07 PM | #700 | ||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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