02-23-2003, 11:59 PM | #661 |
the dumb stoner canuck
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god has a meaning for everything trust me i kno
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-"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow. |
02-24-2003, 02:43 AM | #662 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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02-24-2003, 08:55 PM | #663 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I would say no; I'm not sure what Lief meant....
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-25-2003, 02:56 AM | #664 |
Elf Lord
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No, no, no. That's not what I meant to imply. He does care about everyone, but MasterMothra clearly has doubts as to that fact. I'm saying that from MasterMothra's standpoint, it would make sense that if God cares about him, he'd answer. Particularly if he is the God Christians worship.
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02-25-2003, 09:40 AM | #665 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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02-26-2003, 05:42 PM | #666 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Another interesting example of mis-communication by typing (I would have bet our new computer Lief didn't think that God didn't care about some people!)
Well, this thread seems to be winding down, so I think I'll cut way back on the scope of the Abraham answer, and try to get it into 1 or 2 posts.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-26-2003, 05:59 PM | #667 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Father Abraham
To refresh any memories that need refreshing, or that weren't in on the way that the topic came up, briefly: there was a thread started by a person that said she was hearing voices and that the voices were saying to hurt herself and others. Many of us tried to help out this person, even though I think many of us thought that perhaps it might be a hoax, by giving some advice that we thought might help her. At one point, I said for her to pray, but that God would not tell her to do anything that would hurt anyone. Then Anduril responded by bringing up Genesis 22:1, which is the opening of the story of where Abraham is told by God to sacrifice his son Isaac. Since I thought that it was not worth the risk to discuss this topic on that thread, since there was a chance that the thread starter was entirely serious about hearing voices and might be encouraged to hurt someone, I asked Anduril to move the discussion somewhere else if he really wanted to talk about it (but I got mad at him first and rather lost my temper, because I thought it wasn't very kind to bring up something like that when the thread-starter was talking about hurting people, and I said he had no idea what the Genesis passage was about). Anduril then moved the Abraham question over here, where it was promptly buried by some other questions that came up. But now I have some time, and I'll try to talk about it, to the best of my limited knowledge.
And I got sidetracked and now have to leave to pick up the kids, so I'll just throw it out to anyone - what do you guys think it's about? I'll try to finish my post later this afternoon.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-26-2003 at 06:29 PM. |
02-26-2003, 06:55 PM | #668 |
FloraAzul
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God was testing Abraham pure an' simple.
No it's not that he didn't love his son but God specificcly says to put God before everything. His [Abraham's] possesions, his life, his son's life. Everything.
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Atheism: A Non-Prophet Organization Yet many shall be amazed when they see Him-yes even far off foreign nations and thier kings; they shall stand dumb-founded, speechless in his prescence. For they shall see and understand what they had not seen before-Isaiah 52:15a Civil War- 498,332 dead WWI-116,708 dead WWII-407,316 dead Korean War-54,246 dead Vietnam War-58,665 dead Persian Gulf-372 dead War on The Unborn=35,000,000 dead and counting |
02-26-2003, 09:02 PM | #669 |
Elf Lord
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Rather similar to what happened to Job, actually.
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02-27-2003, 01:04 AM | #670 |
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Abraham, con't
I think the testing of Abraham was definitely one thing that was going on - testing in the sense of demonstrating the faith that was already there - but not the only purpose of this episode. (BTW, remember that the Bible says that God does not tempt us, though - from James 1:13,14 - 'Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt any one. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.') But why did God pick that particular thing for Abraham to do, and not something like sacrifice Sarah, whom he also loved, or go jump off a very high place and see if God will save him (like Satan tempted Jesus to do in Luke 4:9)?
I think, from all I have read on the subject (and I've read a lot! I've been a Christian for 30 years, and I really like the OT, esp. Genesis) it's because this story is a 'type', or picture, of the upcoming sacrifice that Jesus will make for us (I think Gwaimir mentioned this earlier). That's why I started the discussion on Abraham/Isaac with the C. S. Lewis quotes, which I'll link back to: they're here So God was preparing a certain historical setting for this Abraham/Isaac thing to take place in, and He was also preparing Abraham himself to be the father of the Jewish nation, and also the father of those who are Jews by faith, not by the flesh (Christians! - from Galatians 3:29 - "And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.") Just a quick general note on Abraham - he is an extremely important person in the Christian faith! When I was looking up some verses about Abraham in my concordance, I found that there are over 70 references to Abraham in the New Testament alone! Seventy! Wow! Anyway, back to the topic.... just a quick summary of some highlights of Abraham's life up to the point of this story...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-27-2003 at 02:22 AM. |
02-27-2003, 02:23 AM | #671 |
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and as usual, I took longer than I intended, so I'll have to finish tomorrow or the next day Any comments so far?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-27-2003, 01:03 PM | #672 |
Elf Lord
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Rian, I didn't ask before because I basically agree with MasterMothra's viewpoint, and didn't want to get on a personal level, but if you are recommending a Lewis book to him, why on Earth "The Problem of Pain" and not "A Grief Observed"?
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
02-27-2003, 01:31 PM | #673 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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You've read A Grief Observed? IIRC, you're not a Christian; that's rather interesting that you've read one of Lewis' more obscure books. Have you read many of his books (and if so, why aren't you a Christian )
AGO is a good book, but as Lewis says in there somewhere, he's NOT thinking clearly some of the times, he's just pouring out his grief and his jumbled thoughts, whereas in PoP he's really addressing the intellectual questions about pain, which seem to be what MM is objecting to about Christianity. I wanted to recommend a book to MM where Lewis IS thinking clearly about the subject, not one where his grief sometimes gets the better of his judgement. I don't know, though, MM - maybe AGO would also be a book that might help you, although in a different way - Lewis certainly loved his wife a lot.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-28-2003, 01:03 PM | #674 |
Elf Lord
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Confession time- I only read it last night, before I posted.
I've picked it up a few times, but the sheer personal gut-spilling intensity caused me to shy away- I'm from northern English working-class background; always taught to repress emotions and just carry your load - "Eee, stop yer moanin' and get on with it, lad". So, there I was in a Taiwan University library at 9 o'clock at night, tears spilling down my face and Chinese students backing out of the stacks away from this crazy foreigner before he flips out. I'm fortunate enough that I haven't lost anybody really close to me since my father, more than thirty years ago- not in an untimely way, anyway- grandparents in their 80s and suchlike-but the power of his writing was enough to totally break me up. I'm married myself, so I found myself projecting into his situation- especially when he said look, you have to face it- one or the other of you is going to be left alone. For those who haven't read it, "A Grief Observed" is a very short journal Lewis wrote immediately after the death of his beloved wife Joy from a long and agonizing bout with cancer. In it he pours out his anguish, doubts and even rage against God before coming back to his faith. As far as grief overcoming judgement, I think that's the power of the book- it's NOT an intellectual exercise, it's getting your nose rubbed in it- hard. I went back and reread PoP (Rian, you're a bad influence on an old skeptic), but I think that, like most of Lewis's theological writing, it's more appropriate for Christians either newly converted or newly facing some of the questions that a modern mind brings to bear on their faith.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
02-28-2003, 06:11 PM | #675 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-28-2003, 06:35 PM | #676 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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end of initial Abraham discussion ...
So after reviewing some things about Abraham and his life up to the point of the Abraham/Isaac story in Genesis 22, here's some remarks on it...
As far as the 'testing' aspect of it, I'll just quote a section from a commentary: Quote:
And now onto the other aspect of the story - the "picture of Christ" idea. I think there are 3 pictures going on here -
And I can't believe it, but I've run out of time and need to go get the kids from school - maybe it's better 'short and sweet' instead of my usual lengthy posts! Just a quick note on #2 - Isaac was probably about 27 or so, so he had to be willing (it was NOT a case of Abraham overpowering a 4-year-old!) Also, on #1 - Abraham had such faith in God that even though God's promise said that his descendants should come thru ISAAC, specifically, Abraham was willing to obey God anyway in this matter, because (I'll find the ref later) something like "he believed that God could even raise people from the dead". This is such an important story in the Bible, and really beautifully presents a picture of Christ's upcoming sacrifice for our sins, out of His great love for us. Gotta run
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-01-2003 at 02:43 AM. |
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03-01-2003, 02:41 AM | #677 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And here's the reference for the note on #1 - it's Hebrews 11:17-19.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-03-2003, 01:08 PM | #678 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And now onto a new subject, since it appears that everyone agrees with everything I've said on all of the previous topics
My 7-year-old posed a question that I really don't have an answer to from the Bible, so I thought I'd throw it open to you guys - We were talking about the pros and cons of various pets, and my 7-yr-old said he didn't like worms because they pooped (they currently have a worm in a little bug-catcher plastic cage thingie, and they now have visual evidence that worms do, indeed, poop), and I said, "well, but EVERYTHING poops!" Then he came back with "except God, right?" I think that he's probably correct And now that I think of it, this area probably falls under the "God is perfect" realm of Bible verses. Just a funny little kid-thing I thought I'd share with you guys
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-03-2003, 01:26 PM | #679 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure God does poop though. In fact, I'm pretty sure that whenever the Almighty looks in my directions he's wagging an admonishing finger with one hand and holding the loo roll in the other <----------please note the winky emoticon. |
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05-04-2003, 08:42 PM | #680 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I thought I'd ressurect this thread for my own vile purposes.
Anywho, I've been hearin some rather...surprising (and incorrect) thoughts on what Christians believe, and Christianity in general recently. I was wondering if some of those who do not believe in Christianity would be willing to share some of what they think Christians believe, as a sort of survey? I would have posted this in the Religious Knowledge thread, but I was afraid that might close it somewhat to learning about other religions. Anyone? -Igor flips the switch-
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