09-30-2006, 05:24 PM | #641 | ||
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(See Ri's post) Quote:
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10-01-2006, 10:40 PM | #642 | |||
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Actually, Jonathan is right about parasitism. I believe that since foetuses are the same organism as their host, they aren't technically parasites. However, Jonathan is right about the parasitic symptoms as well.
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...Except I know you are, because sometimes you like to get people to round out their points by making them answer silly questions. Parasitism talks about how one organism takes biological resources such as nutrients or carbon from another organism. Since this is a biological definition describing all organisms in the natural world and not solely humans, money (a strictly human contstruct) does not enter into the debate. And why does money matter? Because a teenager is eating food that his parents bought for him. He is not obtaining nutrients directly from his parents' bodies, thus, he is not a parasite (as much as your wallet may beg to differ ).
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10-02-2006, 12:00 AM | #643 |
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Jonathan is right that there are certain resemblances to a parasite, but there is as I pointed out a major difference in the matter of generation and the invasive nature of parasitism.
Nerdanel defined a parasite as: "an organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host." Now, an infant can be considered to fit damn close to that, whether it be born or no. A baby marsupial fits the bill perfectly. Are joeys parasites?
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10-02-2006, 12:43 AM | #644 |
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It seems strange to consider such a definition as covering someone's unborn offspring.
I mean - even look at the animal world. If you told somebody that an animal had parasites, would the hearer even begin to imagine you might be talking about it's unborn cubs, calves, puppies, kittens, etc? Do we consider an unborn whale or dolphin to be a parasite while in it's mother's body? Why then a human? Also curious... Was the definition found from an authoritative source, or crafted in the course of this discussion?
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10-02-2006, 12:59 AM | #645 |
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Wikipedia thinks it means symbiosis wherein the host is harmed. "Symbiosis encompasses commensalism ("eating at the same table", wherein two organisms co-exist in the same space, and one organism benefits while neither harming nor helping the other), through mutualism (wherein both species benefit from the interaction) to parasitism, wherein one organism, usually physically smaller of the two (the parasite) benefits and the other (the host) is harmed."
Dictionaries would be even less authoritative for strict definitions of such things than wikipedia.
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10-02-2006, 05:16 AM | #646 | |||
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The cost might be big, especially for the female, but so is the benefit. But, back to why I first posted at all: you said that Quote:
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Anyway, I guess I'm in the wrong thread.. >.<
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10-02-2006, 07:37 AM | #647 | |
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10-02-2006, 01:59 PM | #648 | |||||||
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Good grief people… It was just a simple statement. The fact is a fetus ACTS just like a parasite as I said. Is anyone here going to deny this? We know that’s clearly true. I never said a fetus is a parasite therefore we need to destroy them all… Geesh…
A lot of people here act like pregnancy is the best thing that could happen to you. In fact its not. Its extremely dangerous. Up until relatively recently (late 18th century?) getting pregnant meant you had a good chance of dieing from complications somewhere between inception and birth (usually around birth). So my statement about the fetus being like a parasite was in response to Liefs ridiculous notion of the mother being only a “biological life support mechanism” which is just as absurd a notion as the fetus actually BEING a parasite and im quite delighted there was so much anguish over the parasite comment since that shows quite clearly there is a double standard involved here: Its morally unacceptable to harm a fetus even up to the point of being a ball of cells… but its perfectly ok to treat the mother as a birthing machine with no rights to determine what is best for HER and HER health and situation no matter how she got pregnant, how perilous her particular situation is and no matter how undeveloped the fetus is. Utterly ridiculous… Quote:
Or does your point of view stem directly from a certain religious philosophy which says oh its ok to do this but you cant do that? If that’s the case then lose the line drawing argument. Quote:
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10-02-2006, 02:01 PM | #649 | ||
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Also, obviously parasitism and reproduction are two different kettles of non-parasitic fish. Propogating ones genes benefits the species.
Let us all remember this moment in history when the participants of the Abortion thread agreed on something. (That foetuses aren't parasites.)
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10-02-2006, 05:22 PM | #650 | ||||||||
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I lean towards agreeing about armed conflict, but sometimes it is unavoidable. War and fighting are awful things, but that does not mean they are not necessary (though I would tend to say ONLY in clear-cut self-defense against intentional harm). Quote:
Do you realize the absurdity of the statement? "organ"..."organism"...An organ means, in Greek, a tool. An organism is a body outfitted with natural tools. Quote:
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Nurv: Three cheers for the Abortion debate! Though I still wish we'd talk about personhood...
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10-02-2006, 05:25 PM | #651 |
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Are we not all parasites on Mother earth?
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10-02-2006, 05:27 PM | #652 | |
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All Parasites are Equal...but some parasites say they are more equal than the smaller ones...
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10-02-2006, 06:02 PM | #653 | |
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10-02-2006, 06:04 PM | #654 | |
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10-02-2006, 06:06 PM | #655 | |
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... ... but here goes. No not really, i'd say it rather depends how you define a parasite. best, BB |
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10-02-2006, 06:08 PM | #656 | |||||||
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Nevermind the disingenuousness of arguing from this point of view when you genuinely believe it is wrong to terminate even two cells which we ALL know doesn’t have any of the abilities listed above. Quote:
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10-02-2006, 06:44 PM | #657 | ||||||||||||||||
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But if that is true, mercy is non-existent; it's a selfless thing. You may have something that looks merciful if done for benefit, but it isn't. Quote:
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10-02-2006, 08:43 PM | #658 |
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I find it ironic that life is so sacred once outside the womb...can't be fully responsible for murderous crimes until you're after eighteen...that's Ginsburg for ya, the mother of all calamities. Lowering age of consent down to twelve too, yeah, before your daughter is even past puberty. Yep, that's Ginsburg.
Once you're outside the womb suddenly nobody seems to want to kill you anymore... , they're all about non-violence the sacredness of LIFE...
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10-02-2006, 09:05 PM | #659 | ||
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Well, I find it ironic that life is so sacred inside the womb, but once you're born you're on your own. Yup, doesn't matter if the mother would have had an abortion because of a lack of physical and emotional resources to support a child, as long as she has the child, that's all the matters.
Just turning it around on ya buddy. Also, who the heck holes is Ginsburg, and why does he/she want to lower the age of consent to 12? On a related note, what does that have to do with abortion?
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10-02-2006, 10:00 PM | #660 | |
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