The Singers Thread

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

I was just listening to that.

*disappears back into the shadows*

Seriously, though, your friend certainly sounds built for baroque! The next question is: does she look good in pants?

We'll see . She's currently in the process of losing weight, and she looks fantastic.

It just makes me sad that she didn't get training when she was young, and then she got torn down in her late teens when she tried to major in music, then when she got back into it in her 30's she had a horrible teacher at first. I'm just glad she's got a good teacher now. It's going to be an incredible voice... heck it already is.

It sort of reminds me of my mom... natural 3 octave range (when she can get to it), and she really wanted to sing when she was little but apparently a choir teacher told her she shouldn't sing any more... so she just stopped and never really got the confidence back to "sing out". Of course now she has no interest in singing, but oh well. She probably could've been quite a singer if things had turned out differently.


I have to admit, it sort of kills me to be surrounded by such talent. My other best friend, the one who made it to the Met simifinals at 22, is 23 now and just got hired by the Houston symphony to sing a lead role (he hasn't even graduated yet...), and my best friend the contralto went from having a tiny, unstable vocal range to having this enormous range and COMPLETELY surpassing my ability level after only about 4 lessons... that on top of having one of the rarest vocal types in the world. I know my turn will come, but I sort of wish I weren't surrounded by people who make me look like total crap.

[Tessar]

Frustrating... for the life of me, I cannot seem to make a real "oo" vowel. It's still coming out "uh" no matter what I try. Puckering my lips, pinching the sides of my lips closer together with my fingers, changing the inside shape of my mouth, raising/lowering my soft palate.... cannot seem to make a proper "oo" vowel.

*sigh*

[Gwaimir Windgem]

*refrains from making a comment about what happens when you live in Texas*

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

*refrains from making a comment about what happens when you live in Texas*

I'm the Sumi Jo of America.


Based off of my last lesson and the work that I've continued to do, I'm wondering if the root of a LOT of my problems isn't just tongue tension. I tried something I'd never done before, where I sort of jammed my thumb into my throat, behind the chin and just in front of the larynx so that I could feel the muscles at the root of my tongue.

I didn't realize that even when I think my tongue is relaxed, sometimes it's not. There's a very small "window" of my voice that is free of tongue tension, which is great, but my tongue is actually getting extremely tense without me realizing it through most of my voice, which is not so great. Apparently "oo"s are a real trigger for that, too... which might explain why I can't do them properly. If my tongue is that tense, it's probably distorting the vowel.


What's interesting is that from my middle-low voice down to my very lowest notes, my tongue gets insanely tight. It's much worse on my low notes than my high notes.

Soooooo... there's going to be a ton-load of work on that for however long it takes to release that tension. There's so much of it that I suspect it may take quite a while. But if the work I did tonight is any indication, it's going to make an enormous difference. For a few seconds I got my tongue fairly relaxed, and it made a -huge- difference in my sound. If I can just get it to do that all of the time I'll be in business.

[Tessar]

Speaking of tongue tension though, or maybe better said "a complete and total lack there-of", how about THIS chick?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvpvEodo0K4

Laura Claycomb. One of the most famous sopranos out there today, and deservedly so. This is what I want, technique-wise, for myself. If you listen, and watch, she has almost zero body tension at all. Lets not even talk about her casually strolling out at the end while sustaining a high Eb6. Or singing that note while laying down on stage. Yeah.... zero tension. O_o

[Tessar]

Soooo in other news I'm a retarded monkey at singing, but we knew that already.

I went in to my first voice lesson in a month due to being busy, then being sick, and told my teacher that I was pretty sure that there was something -super- basic that I was doing wrong.

So we thought, and we worked, and at one point I was lying down on the floor trying to fix my neck/back posture, and she said, "Here, let me come press against your support muscles to help you. Resist against my hand."

Aaaaaand she put her fist against my stomach right underneath my ribs. I gave her a weird look and said, "Why is your hand up so high?" Then she gave me the, "You're a crazy person, what are you talking about?" look and we both realized what's been going on all of these years with my voice.

I've never supported correctly, although everyone thought I was. I've been trying to use the muscles at the bottom of my stomach/pelvis to support the air, and apparently it's the area -above- your belly button that supports the sound. I've been confused the entire time... people told me to breath low, so I thought you supported low too... I was never told by anyone to use the muscles -above- my belly button.


It's pretty incredible that I've gotten as far as I have without learning to support at all. Vocalizing those high Bb's shouldn't have been possible, but apparently I had enough other things going on correctly that I squeaked by. But this explains why everything new would improve my voice for a little while then it would all fall apart again--without proper support nothing you change can last more than a few days.

I talked to four of the other singers at church this morning and none of them could believe that I've never known how to support before. They were astounded that my voice developed as far as it did without anything 'beneath' it to support the sound... what's crazy is that now every time I start singing I can feel my voice improving. It's more free and resonant this afternoon than it was this morning (each service got easier and easier to sing), and this morning it was more free and resonant than it was yesterday afternoon.

Craziness!!!! I think this might be that one 'breakthrough' that I needed. Now all of the other things that worked for a while and then fell apart are starting to come together all at once. I love it.

[Varnafindë]

My dear retarded monkey - that's amazing.
And no other teacher has ever noticed?

Combining this breakthrough with all the other things you have learnt over the last months, should take you ... to the stars?

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

And no other teacher has ever noticed?

Nope! It's amazing, because I've had some great teachers. My last three have been fantastic. My voice teacher actually tried to apologize to me, saying that she felt it was her fault for never realizing, but I understand why she couldn't tell. Listening to recordings, my voice sounded like it was being supported... it was just really "tense". So we thought I needed to relax more... the real problem has been that I was relaxing the muscles I needed to be using.

Combining this breakthrough with all the other things you have learnt over the last months, should take you ... to the stars?

I'm really hopeful that this is the beginning of something big for my voice.

Two of the voice teachers I talked to today told me that considering how much I've been able to do without support, I might actually have a lot more voice than we've thought. That would be great, because one of my fears so far has been that my voice is not really big enough to sing opera. Maybe it will be now!


I kind of feel like maybe this was meant to happen, though. I suspect that if I had been able to do this from the beginning I would have gone into a Performance Degree, and I'm still feeling like a Business degree is what I need to do... if for no reason other than to be able to properly manage my own career. Plus voices like mine don't hit their stride till they're about 30, and I don't want to rush into a career and damage my voice.

[Tessar]

I sang a bunch of pieces today, that I couldn't sing at all before, like they were nothing.

My voice continued to improve throughout the lesson today... It's like every time I sing a little bit, my body adjusts more to the new technique and my voice lets me do more and more things. I'm having to relearn all of the sensations, vowels, placements, etc.... but hey... it's finally working correctly so...

So that's really exciting. On the downside, m teacher told me that, now that she's hearing my voice supported and moving freely, my voice is probably going to be too small to do professional opera. My voice will be heard over an orchestra with no problem because I can 'cut' with my sound, but it's not going to be 'big' like operatic voices need to be.

But I don't know... I'm hopeful. There have been some famous singers with pretty small voices. Natalie Dessay comes to mind, along with a host of baroque singers. Plus it's not like I'm looking to be the 'main' guy. I don't really want to sing Don Giovanni, I would rather be his sidekick Laporello, or sing Massetto. Or some of the Mozart 'secondary' baritone roles. It's not that I don't enjoy the idea of being a main character, I just don't like most of the roles. I like the arias that the secondary guys have.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yeah, if you're voice is going to be too small to be heard over a standard orchestra, aim for the small baroque ensembles, sez I.

Alternately, you can become an art-song specialist, like notre ami Ian Bostrudge.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Yeah, if you're voice is going to be too small to be heard over a standard orchestra, aim for the small baroque ensembles, sez I.

Well here's the dizzle... there is actually someone in town that I know, that I coached with once, who was a baroque specialist in Germany for something like 10 years. She's got an -incredible- voice. So maybe at some point I'll be trying to work with her again and see if I've got what it takes for baroque opera.

The only problem with her is that she really, really, really wants me to sing counter-tenor, and while I love counter-tenors, that's not the voice I want to sing with. I want to use my baritone voice.

Alternately, you can become an art-song specialist, like notre ami Ian Bostrudge.

I've thought about that. I love art song, particularly French artsong, so that might not be a bad move. Oratorio would be another good way to go.

[Tessar]

Apparently I'm going to be singing a solo some time in January, so I need to get started on picking something out and get working on it...

The problem is I have no idea where my voice will be by January. One week of this new support and my voice is completely different from how it used to be... so I don't want to pick something super easy and underwhelm everyone, but on the other end I don't want to pick something super hard.

Gah, it's hard to pick!!! I'm leaning towards "For The Mountains Shall Depart," from Elijah... I'd sort of love to sing some Handel or something, because I feel like I do the fast passages well, but I dunno. Maybe not Messiah stuff so soon after Christmas. Another thought I had was maybe just sing a simple hymn like "Be Thou My Vision," but I'm thinking that might underwhelm...

[Varnafindë]

You needn't do the most Christmassy stuff of Messiah.
And I agree that a simple hymn might underwhelm. It can be beautiful - but it's difficult when you don't know what you used to know about your own voice.

[Tessar]

Hmm... I might give "But Who May Abide," along with the "Refiner's Fire," section, a try. I'll take it to my teacher on Monday and see if she thinks I can get it in shape by January. Might be a little too much for me right now. It's the piece my awesome alto friend is singing, so I already know it pretty well because I go to all of her lessons to cheer her on .

[Tessar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKiYreftTEU

I don't know. Obviously I'd sing it much higher in my range, but my range pretty much all has that same coloring so it's fairly like what it would sound like when I sing it in the proper key.

I'm thinking my voice isn't "interesting," enough to pull of a simple hymn without severely underwhelming, even if I really play with the dynamics. I'm still feeling like I need something a little more impressive vocally, like the Messiah or the Elijah piece.

[Rían]

Tessar, I don't usually post here, but I usually read the thread, and just wanted to say that I'm so excited for you and your breakthroughs! Congrats!

Is there any kind of theme for the - is it some type of recital?

[Earniel]

Well, you know best what you can do with your voice. I'm not an expert, but I don't think it can hurt to go for a slightly more complicated piece instead of a slightly more simple piece, if only for the exercise.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Dude. If you do But Who May Abide, you know we're going to require a recording.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Hmm... I might give "But Who May Abide," along with the "Refiner's Fire," section, a try. I'll take it to my teacher on Monday and see if she thinks I can get it in shape by January. Might be a little too much for me right now. It's the piece my awesome alto friend is singing, so I already know it pretty well because I go to all of her lessons to cheer her on .

Do that! And if your teacher thinks so, go for it!

And I second the request for a recording

[Tessar]

I may try to work that out.

Also, I am totally right!!! I just read somewhere that laughter naturally "bounces" the Diaphragm, making it stronger. It's sort of like doing pushups with your diaphragm. Since I am laughing all the time (it's not hard to make me laugh...) that explains why my diaphragm was already so strong without even being properly used for singing before. Most people have to take a while to build up strength there.

.... okay for all I know the article was full of crap. But it sounds good to me.

The thing I'm struggling with right now is, now that my body's getting used to using the support, all of my old muscular tension is trying to kick back in. I was struggling to sing these last few days, gradually getting a little more difficult each time, till I realized today that I've been slowly tensing my throat up when I sing... like the false "support" I was creating before. Got the tension to release so everything got easy again, but I'll really have to watch that.

I really want to get a little more solid with this new way of singing before I dive into practicing But Who May Abide. It's such a tough piece, I want to have my voice moving freely and easily when I work on it.