Homosexual marriage

[Butterbeer]

so ... you refusing point blank then Insidious to give gourgeous Lizra a hug then?

[Insidious Rex]

Hey Im always willing to hug a female Tolkien fan. In fact Im usually willing to do a lot more then that with a female Tolkien fan which is what seems to get me in such trouble.

[Lizra]

Mmmmmmm! You guys feel good AND smell good!

[The Gaffer]

Sorry, I think that must be the curry I had last night.

Good signs, IR; keep the heid. I wonder if the influence of far-right bible bashing has peaked.

Most prejudice is based on ignorance, so as more people are openly out, these attitudes will be eroded bit by bit. It will probably take a generation but it will happen.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Of course, the inconsistent illogic is simply this:

With my left hand I will demand that only biology can determine behavior.

With my right hand I will insist on behavior that elevates man above the animals by supression of biological urges.

What?!?!?!

Which is it? Can't they see that these two ideas are opposites?

Of course they can. They just want to select whichever premise supports their argument today.

So if you say that all the other great apes have a diversity of sexual behaviors, they tell you that homo sapiens is above the other animals because we control our reproduction by choice.

But if you say that people have a right to choose how and when and where they use their reproductive apparati, they say that biological necessity is the only acceptable basis for sex.

In short, they choose whichever argument suits them on that occasion.

You guys seem as eager to ignore as we are to point out!

Well, here is an opinion not on "disproving" gayness, but just a thought of what goes through my mind when I read those cheaply written "Newsweek" and "Time" articles about "Gay teens coming out".

It seems to me, that this "gay teen" is nothing but a replacement for the "goth" or some other such breast-beating stance. (Don't look for puns!)

Rule No.5 of life, never do anything just because it is popular. This vague "be yourself" rubbish that infests every kid movie these days does a lot of the "yourself" part for them (the kids). The besy way to "be yourself" is to make your own [smart] decisions.

I've always imagined the "be yourself" in movies wanted you to go back to being an embryo...

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

who exactly are you quoting here and why?

despite having no or indeed any idea of the context or meaning of this post, since none is given, i get the impression it is anti-british - and anti European Christian - why?

I fail to see why you seem intent on offending both Christians, Europeans, Americans, gays, non-gays et al hector????

what's going on there, man????

It was a half sarcastic comment

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Dunno. Some sort of malfunction anyway.

Hector, just saying "some gays are responsible, some aren't" doesn't absolve one from prejudice. You have to actually not be prejudiced as well.

Responsible for what? Getting AIDS? So, no stereotyping going on there then.

As for the "hiding behind the ACLU's skirts" comment, I have no idea where that comes from.

Sorry, but I relaly can't follow your argument. Iit looks to me that in your mind you have all the gay stuff all mixed up in a bucket and are just trotting out whatever fires off when thinking about gays.

And you still haven't stated what reason "other folks" have to be angry with gays. Because they want to be treated equally?

I think the problem was, Gaffer, that we actually AGREED, but thought we still disagreed, about the stereotyping.

Mixed up? I may have been, I was also wet and the library was closing

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

It seems to me, that this "gay teen" is nothing but a replacement for the "goth" or some other such breast-beating stance.

Rule No.5 of life, never do anything just because it is popular.

Popular? Are some of them seeking to be 'popular' by being ostracized by their peers and family members and being teased and or beat up? Sometimes brutally? What kind of popularity is that? And how does your 'logic' on gay teens account for the thousands and thousands of gay teens who have not yet come out of the closet because they are ashamed or afraid or in denial? How does one beat their gay breast if they dont let anyone know they are gay exactly?

This vague "be yourself" rubbish that infests every kid movie these days does a lot of the "yourself" part for them (the kids). The besy way to "be yourself" is to make your own [smart] decisions.

Smart decisions? Like what? Do you mean act straight?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Popular? Are some of them seeking to be 'popular' by being ostracized by their peers and family members and being teased and or beat up? Sometimes brutally? What kind of popularity is that? And how does your 'logic' on gay teens account for the thousands and thousands of gay teens who have not yet come out of the closet because they are ashamed or afraid or in denial? How does one beat their gay breast if they dont let anyone know they are gay exactly?

Rex, being like THAT may be popular in numbers, but not because they want to BE POPULAR, as in be liked. The gothie kids are/were the best example.

I'm not trying to say they WANT to be rejected by the world, but they want to be "different"* (and don't you ALWAYS hear the opposite?). It's part of being a teen
Kind of like Russians, never happy until they're miserable

*which I don't think is a bad thing.

As for your last sentence, I don't know! But what I do know, is that Newsweek and Time somehow got a hold of a few gay teens! They apperantly weren't in the closet...
(Or did Time and Newsweek just make them up?)

I don't think they're as "afraid" as you think, btw. I don't know how many brutal beatings you've witnessed however...

Thousands and thousands? You seem to know their numbers yourself despite your last sentence...

Did I use the word "LOGIC" in my post that you have replied to? I'll have to check.




[/QUOTE]Smart decisions? Like what? Do you mean act straight?[/QUOTE]
Taken Out of Context , please replace.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

IR, I believe Hector is referring to the tendency that some teenagers have to try to seek a sort of "martyrdom", by acting in a way which contemporary society rejects, which does have it's own sort of counter-cultural popularity.

I do definitely disagree with what I take him to be saying, though. I suppose it's possible that a few gay people out there, esp. teens, adopt it as a fulfillment of a martyr syndrome, but I simply cannot imagine that this is the case with the vast majority of gays. Quite honestly, it seems to me absurd, HB.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

IR, I believe Hector is referring to the tendency that some teenagers have to try to seek a sort of "martyrdom", by acting in a way which contemporary society rejects, which does have it's own sort of counter-cultural popularity.

I do definitely disagree with what I take him to be saying, though. I suppose it's possible that a few gay people out there, esp. teens, adopt it as a fulfillment of a martyr syndrome, but I simply cannot imagine that this is the case with the vast majority of gays. Quite honestly, it seems to me absurd, HB.

You used "martyrdom" too!

But GW, it is not so absurd. I may not have proof for it, but it is not absurd at least.
I did not say gay people in general acted like this, I said gay teens, who apperantly have been getting some frontpage coverage.

You're getting my argument I see, but you reject the subject applied to. (That Also, I see).
I said in my post which IR replied to, that the idea of yours truly went through my head as I read the Time article. It is a suggestion, an idea of mine, which makes complete sense... (to me), but I don't exactly have a "I Am Gay" pledge from purportedly Thousands upon Thousands of potentially gay teens to back me up....

*sigh* which brings me back to square one...*reads newspaper*

[Lizra]

Hector, Hector, Hector..... The "ghey" guys didn't get routinely beat up at your jr high/high school? How unusual!

I've already heard my 10 year old son spout off how he doesn't like homosexuals...usually when I'm watching "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy". It's rather confusing to him....the hate his jocko buds feed him at school....and his mom's apparent faghagdom.
I think he needs a little more maturity under his belt before he gets some understanding on what's going on yet....a loaded subject.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yeah it definitely will take a helluva lot for anyone, adult or child, to understand this whole situation with gays and persecution thereof.

[Lizra]

I believe the recipe is ....... = parts suspicion, fear, second-hand understanding and empathy........add lies and coverups and doubletalk, shake vigorously till it blows......

[inked]

Lots and lots and lots of loving committed couples are NOT signing up for marriage in the gay community. But, could this be why?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...TAM&SECTION=US

IT's so much more difficult than simply walking away after 4.1 years or whatever the average "longterm" gay relationship is.

Not that the divorce lawyers mind, I am sure.

[Insidious Rex]

Wow a gay couple seperated. Now theres a good reason not to allow them to marry because lord knows that has NEVER happened in the heterosexual community...

[Butterbeer]

Hector:

You used "martyrdom" too!

But GW, it is not so absurd. I but it is not absurd ...

just for clarity of other posters ..'GW' is to most mooters Greywolf ... ... *shrugs*

personally i use Gwai for ..er. gwai ... it helps avoid confusion ...

BB

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I agree. I think it is best for all concerned if I am "Gwai" and Greywolf is "GW".

Just simply that way, y'know!

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Lizra

Hector, Hector, Hector..... The "ghey" guys didn't get routinely beat up at your jr high/high school? How unusual!

I've already heard my 10 year old son spout off how he doesn't like homosexuals...usually when I'm watching "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy". It's rather confusing to him....the hate his jocko buds feed him at school....and his mom's apparent faghagdom.
I think he needs a little more maturity under his belt before he gets some understanding on what's going on yet....a loaded subject.

Actually, now that I think about it, I was best friends in fifth grade with a guy that a lot of kids, for some reason, always made fun of. I think his parents were rich...
Thinking back it might have been because he was "gay", but in that grade, everyone was calling everyone else gay no matter if they were or not.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Isn't fifth grade a bit young to be saying that someone is "gay"? I mean, it seems as though puberty would be a better time to say so. I'm guessing this is just an example of the general twittishness of people these days in calling people "gay" seriously, or perhaps just using "gay" in the derogatory "This is so gay!" fashion.