REAL debate thread for RELIGION

[Rían]

Thanks for your answers, BOP and Drgnslyer

I'll check out the link, BOP. One of these days I"ll have to email those guys and fight them about the computer simulations.




tra la la la ...

*drops a gerbil down BOP's pants*

[BeardofPants]

Stop dropping furry mammals down my pants! *retrieves hamster & Gerbil* Be free, my friends, be free!

[Nurvingiel]

Your answer sounded like good material for the "Evidence for Creationism" thread. Care to join us BoP? Once you get rid of that gerbil anyway.

[Rían]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I don't know who gave you the idea that there are masses of complete skeletons, in villages, but they are not correct.

The village part was an exaggeration for humor but I think the person really thought there were just scads of complete skeletons.

Hope this helps.

Thanks v. much, that was pretty much what I was looking for. Certainly not thousands, and typically a v. small part of the skeleton, often just part of a skull. I guess our teeth and skulls are pretty hard (I know that I have a hard head; how 'bout you? ), and they tend to be the parts that survive.

Btw: I was just enrolling down at uni, and I decided to take a look through my old dept, and I got all nostalgic! I guess a small part of me still wants to finish that anthropology masters!

Oh, I know what you mean! I just HAVE to go back to visit the beautiful town where I went to college every 5 years or so, and I love to just walk around campus and go into the campus store, etc. And I sometimes wish I could get my master's, too - but not much reason to do that now.

[Rían]

*catches the gerbil and hamster and drops them down Nurv's pants* woo hoo!


How 'bout a leopard gecko, BOP? My son has one of those. Would you prefer that? It's not a furry mammal ... now give me my pants back!

[BeardofPants]

Rian, geckos aren't doing so well over here because of the nasty cats, dogs, ferrets, et al. I'm almost tempted to smuggle one down my pants... but no. Might be bad for the NZ ecosystem if I intro'd a yankee gecko.

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Your answer sounded like good material for the "Evidence for Creationism" thread. Care to join us BoP? Once you get rid of that gerbil anyway.

I generally tend to try not to get involved in those kinds of debates now. Unless someone specifically asks for an anthropological viewpoint. Sucks up way too much of my time, and no one budges from their little corners of the sandpit. ::shrug::

Have fun with the gerbil.

[Nurvingiel]

*dances around with the hamster and gerbil in her pants until they run down her leg and run away*
Whew. That was some excercise.

I'll remember you if we need an anthropologist.

Rian and I are going to go play in the sand now. Want to? I have a shovel and pail.

[Rían]

Wheee! Sand!!! And virtual sand doesn't get all stuck in your shoes and pocketses!!

My virtual self will stay and play with you; my real self needs to log off and finish some laundry

[Ruinel]

What a bunch of spammers!

[Rían]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
[B]Rian, geckos aren't doing so well over here because of the nasty cats, dogs, ferrets, et al. I'm almost tempted to smuggle one down my pants... but no. Might be bad for the NZ ecosystem if I intro'd a yankee gecko.

Too bad they aren't doing well - they're rather cute little things. Yeah, don't wanna corrupt those innocent little NZ reptiles with a Yankee gecko!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
What a bunch of spammers!

As Earniel says : "Pot, meet kettle!"

[Arien the Maia]

Take it to another thread and I'll discuss it with you. The Catholic church is quite wrong on this. And birth control isn't what causes divorce.

I brought this over from the Gay/Lesbian thread.

I never said that birth control causes divorce! But it doesn't help a marriage IMO. The Church only wants what is best for God's people....I don't mean to offend those of you who do use birth control. I have done research on it and read several different books about it...for and against. My marriage is more important than getting to have sex whenever I want.

[Nurvingiel]

Glad you brought that over Arien, I was hoping someone would do that.

I don't think a lack of "artificial" birth control would help a marriage either. There is no correlation either way IMO.

Couples who do not use condoms or the pill etc. still often pactice birth control. Natural Family Planning (NFP) is a timing method of when to have sex according to when the woman is not fertile. (You can determine this with quite decent accuracy apparently.) IMO, this is as "unnatural" as using a condom or other artificial birth control. The woman would only be having sex when she completely doesn't feel like it - her body does not want to try to reproduce at this time.

Our bodies are designed so that women want to have sex the most when they are most fertile to increase the chance of producing a baby. We're programmed this way because until very recently, it was necessary to have many children, because many would not live past the age of 5. Only now (in most of the world), with sanitation, has infant mortality dropped.
If you do not want to have many, many children (which you may not be able to care fore adequately), you can choose the right method of birth control for you, whether it's a combination of different types or NFP etc.

In addition, AIDS is a pandemic (a transcontinental epidemic of a disease). AIDS is deadly, and a pregnant mother will give it to her unborn child. Condoms drastically reduce the chance of getting AIDS, so it should be encouraged, not discouraged.

"So just don't have sex then." Before anyone says that and I lose my cool, I will say it. Then I will say, "It is not that simple." People are complex, and if they choose to have sex, they should be allowed to have all the tools they need to have sex safely. There is already huge cultural barriers in some countries with halting the spread of AIDS, why add another barrier of telling people they can't use condoms? The pill and NFP will not protect against any sexually transmitted disease (STD).

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
As Earniel says : "Pot, meet kettle!"

BWAHAHAHAA!!!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
I brought this over from the Gay/Lesbian thread.

I never said that birth control causes divorce! But it doesn't help a marriage IMO. The Church only wants what is best for God's people....I don't mean to offend those of you who do use birth control. I have done research on it and read several different books about it...for and against. My marriage is more important than getting to have sex whenever I want.

You have actual books... that say that birth control causes divorce? Please... go on.... I'd like to hear this.

Edit: BTW... the last time I attended mass was when the priest got up and gave a homily on how birth control was the root of all evil... how it has destroyed the family and caused violence and crime in our community. I couldn't contain myself... I got up... trying very hard to stifle a laugh... and walked out... a couple of other people walked out with me... I never returned.

[BeardofPants]

Sex is a very important part of a relationship. Period. I agree with Nirv that NFP is just as 'unnatural' as any birth control method. In this day and age, it is important that people are informed on birth control, and safe sex. Even married people. The reality is that the US has one of the highest rates of STD transferral in a developed country. Do YOU want to make it even worse? Education is crucial. Just the other day I had to inform someone that the morning after pill is NOT good contraception - not only does it have nasty side-effects (nausea and vomiting, which can cause the pill to become defective), but it only has a 70% success rate. (pill has 90%+) And when it gets down to it, just how 'unnatural' is the pill? Or depo? They're both hormonal supplements. As far as I'm concerned, the idea of birth control and divorce rates being linked, is just as erroneous, and dangerous, as the belief commonly held to be true in africa that you can get rid of AIDs by raping virgins.

[Nurvingiel]

Some people in South Africa (and maybe some other African countries) believe that AIDS can be cured by having sex with a virgin. This could mean rape, but that's not part of the belief. Either way, it only makes the problem worse.

[BeardofPants]

Yes, I know. My point is that most of these virgins probably aren't engaging in consensual sex with the AIDs carrier.

[Nurvingiel]

Ok, well, it was just a side point anyway. Time we heard from the "other side" of the debate.

[Arien the Maia]

ok, first of all, I don't expect people who don't think that sex outside of marriage is wrong to think that NFP is a good form of BC... I however believe that it IS wrong and that if people only had sex if they were married then perhaps the STD problem wouldn't be as predominate as it is now. Second, the books I have are about how to use NFP...they simply mention statistics about how NFP can help a marriage as opposed to ABC (artificial birth control). Also the Pill is basically puttin the hormone progestin (sp) into the woman's body. this hormone occours naturally after ovulation which is what suppresses ovulation until the next cycle. IMO, since this is how God designed the female body, then it IS natural to still have sex when your body isn't ovulating. But, since this is a sensitive topic for me I'm going to "bow out"....I just needed to say my two cents.