Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Finmandos12]

As a rule, books don't convince people...

Well, I know that Lee Strobel writes better than me or anyone else here. (no offense guys! ) If that can't convince him, I don't know what can.....

[WallRocker]

Originally posted by Amandil
As a rule, books don't convince people...

...I'm not sure what does convince people!

What convinces people is what conclusions they draw from what the read or hear.

I also think the case for Christ is a great book. I read when I was having some doubts about my Chritianity, and it really helped me through that

[MasterMothra]

Well, I know that Lee Strobel writes better than me or anyone else here. (no offense guys! ) If that can't convince him, I don't know what can.....

you can't be serious.

[Finmandos12]

you can't be serious.

???? ????

Please explain what you meant.

[MasterMothra]

so i should be "convinced" into accepting christianity by the quality of mr strobel's writing, not the quality of his content?

[Elvellyn]

I think maybe what he meant was that Strobal's words speak to you more strongly than other writers????
Or that he has a way of expressing the truth better than others???

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by MasterMothra
so i should be "convinced" into accepting christianity by the quality of mr strobel's writing, not the quality of his content?

Neither the quantity nor the quality of Mr. Strobel's writing has to convince you. What I've attempted to do in answering your posts, here and on different threads is to remove some of the doubts that keep you from believing that Christianity might well be true. What this book hopefully will do is convince you that it is possible enough that it's true for you to take the next step and seek God himself.

That step doesn't take much faith, but when a person turns toward God, he is willing to work with them despite that.

[Starr Polish]

Originally posted by Amandil
As a rule, books don't convince people...

...I'm not sure what does convince people!

Experiences.

[MasterMothra]

maybe i should clarify my position regarding christianity, or any other religion for that matter. there may very well be a god(christian or other), but, i do not believe that there is. my belief comes from my personal experiences, the bible, church and religion.

what starr polish said is very true: Experience does count, and my experiences thus far have not covinced me that the christian god exists.

i have skimmed through mr. strobel's book. i looked at the key questions that were answered by the leading christian apologists, but i have yet to see any compelling evidence that would convince me to change my current beliefs. i would like to read the book in its entirety before i make any final conclusions though.

but when a person turns toward God, he is willing to work with them despite that.

if god has not been there for me in the past, why should i have faith that he will in the future. my answer is that there is no christian god.

[Starr Polish]

Originally posted by MasterMothra
if god has not been there for me in the past, why should i have faith that he will in the future. my answer is that there is no christian god.

He's been there, you just haven't noticed. God was there when I reached my 'darkest hour' and seriously questioned His existance. Since I wasn't listening I didn't notice He was guiding me.

MasterMothra, and all other non-believers, I'm going suggest somethign that might seem silly. When you start to hit rough patches in life, when you fall into a blue funk or feel like there is no hope, just talk about your troubles in private, or write them down, as if you were speaking to someone. I'm not asking you to pray, address God, amen or anything like that. Just talk, ask your questions, and listen.

[Rían]

Originally posted by MasterMothra
i have skimmed through mr. strobel's book. i looked at the key questions that were answered by the leading christian apologists, but i have yet to see any compelling evidence that would convince me to change my current beliefs. i would like to read the book in its entirety before i make any final conclusions though.

Y'know, MM, if the book is not really addressing topics that are important to you, and if you're going to read just 1 book on my recommendation , I would prefer you pick up The Problem of Pain. It seems from what you said recently that your main objection is still in that realm. The main thing that I like about Strobel's book is the comparision to the scriptures of other religions; the Bible is absolutely in a class by itself, and at the top, IMO.

if god has not been there for me in the past, why should i have faith that he will in the future. my answer is that there is no christian god.

I think PoPain really addresses this issue very clearly. Would you mind terribly if I pulled a female changing-my-mind-thing and asked you very nicely to either read BOTH CfChrist AND PoPain, or if you're going to read just 1, then read PoPain?

[MasterMothra]

i have reserved myself to reading both of those books on your recommendation Rian. i would rather finish mr. strobel's book before i start another. as i stated above, i have only skimmed through the book and would not feel as though i could comment on it any further without finishing. the book thus far is interesting.

i look forward to reading mr. lewis' book. all of his works come highly recommended, even from those who share my beliefs on organized religion. i am ashamed to admit that i have never read any of his books, especially "the chronicles of narnia". i must set aside some time to begin reading them, but as you know, children require an enormous amount of time themselves.

[Rían]

Originally posted by MasterMothra
[B]i have reserved myself to reading both of those books on your recommendation Rian.

i look forward to reading mr. lewis' book. all of his works come highly recommended, even from those who share my beliefs on organized religion. i am ashamed to admit that i have never read any of his books, especially "the chronicles of narnia". i must set aside some time to begin reading them, but as you know, children require an enormous amount of time themselves.

Yes, they certainly do! and you've just given me an idea - I think my 2 youngest are ready for Narnia now, so as soon as I finish the E. Nesbit book we're going thru, I think I'll start them on Narnia. My kids are 12, 7 and 6 - how old are yours? (you probably mentioned it, but I forgot...) You could probably read it with them.

E. Nesbit's books are really funny - we're going thru a book of short fairy tales and just finished "The Princess and the Lift Man". There aren't too many fairy tales that I'm aware of that feature an elevator!

[Rían]

I wanted to put in a quick post here to share some of the outreach activities our church is involved in. I was just thinking about how it's the bad things about Christianity that get the press coverage, not the good things, so I wanted to fill you guys in on some of the good things that are happening at our church (and this is just ONE church - there are many other great ones).

BTW, bad things will certainly happen, because (1) Christians are not perfect, and (2) I think that many of the people you see in the news are NOT Christians. (The Bible talks about those that call upon His name (falsely) and can appear to be Christians, but aren't truly Christians. In another verse, it says Christians will be known by their fruits - IOW, although there may be some bad fruit produced, they will be characterized by good fruit.)

Here's what we came up with as we were driving to a birthday party last weekend:

• help provide meals for the homeless in our community on a regular basis, also basic supplies (socks, hygiene supplies, coats, etc)
• provide counseling services
• provide support groups for people struggling with addictions, going thru divorces, etc.
• support a medical missionary in Ethiopeia - specializes in helping the local inhabitants who have a form of "Elephant Man's" disease that disfigures their feet
• support "The Oaks" - a camp in the mountains for inner-city youth who typically aren't able to get out into nature
• every couple of months, go to a community in Mexico for a weekend (we work thru an organization that has contacts in that community) and build homes for needy families that have no decent shelter. This is one of my favorites - people from our church actually PAY $100 a head for the opportunity (this covers all expenses of food, transportation and building materials). In addition, the bus leaves at 5 am Friday, so people that work M-F have to also take a vacation day. My husband and oldest son usually go on these trips.
• support an orphanage in Romania with supplies and finances and visits
• we're building a school for an orphanage in Uganda, and also providing scholarships for about 100 kids. There were 100 slips available in the lobby for the 100 sponsorships, and I heard one lady ask if it was OK (!!) for her to take 3 - she didn't want to deprive other people of the joy of helping!
• The high school group is doing a 30-hour pray-and-fast weekend (I don't know the subject, but it's pretty impressive that they would do that!) (fasting is when you voluntarily choose to not eat and have a special emphasis on prayer during this time - I find that my growling stomach reminds me to pray ) The daughter of a friend of mine found out that her sports banquet falls on this weekend, and she said "oh, no problem, I'll go but I just won't eat!" Now there's a young lady with some good priorities - enjoyment of food is temporary, and there will be plenty of other banquets, but the chance to pray (and I think they're going somewhere to serve, too) and do some good to others is a wonderful opportunity.
• Another of my favorites - there is a program set up to help needy people in the church with minor house/car chores and repairs. This is typically for divorced/single/widowed moms and the elderly. This program has a church elder in charge of it (the highest level of church authority).
• we're supporting a program in south-central LA to help build a school and provide supplies and teachers.

These are a few of the things our church is doing - it took us about 3 minutes to come up with these off the top of our heads. There's probably lots more that I'm not even aware of. Our church is large - I think just under 2000 members - so we have a lot of resources (which means that people are tithing! - this means giving 10% (or more) of your income to the church - actually, giving 10% BACK of what God has blessed YOU with ). So anyway, there's just a little glimpse of some good things that DON"T make the 6:00 news!

And a Bible verse to think on...

from James 1:27
This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

[Arien the Maia]

What church do you belong to RÃ*an ? It sounds like a very nice and caring one!

[Rían]

It's a non-denominational Christian church called Cornerstone. They have a website, but there's not too much on it... actually, I think you can hear the sermons from the website, which are great! The pastor is Francis Chan. He and some other people originally started a small church in someone's home, I think about 8 years ago, and it has just exploded in growth. He is very faithful to preaching the Word, and the worship is very God-centered (i.e., the worship leaders are not 'performing' on stage, as some worship teams in large churches with talented musicians can do, unfortunately). Here's the website, and I hope they can add some more to it soon - Cornerstone

I think Lief and Gwamir also go to non-denominational churches. It seems as if most of the denominational churches, at least in my experience, have really just fallen away from teaching from the Bible, and their leadership is more political than spiritual

My mom is Catholic, Arien

[Gwaimir Windgem]

So was Tolkien. Hmm...Lewis was Lutheran, I think, right?

[Rían]

And BTW, in case some people still have that ridiculous prejudice that intelligent people can't become Christians w/o compromising their intelligence - I won't ask you to judge my intelligence , but I'll just tell you my dad is a very strong Christian, and worked in intelligence in the Air Force, and then worked in military airborne radar, where he had classifications so high that he couldn't even leave the country w/o getting an OK from our government! He's only told us a few stories, but one of my favorites is that he was once told to go to the airport and get on a certain plane, which he did, then they flew around in circles for awhile, then landed at some airbase, where he was instructed to wait outside a certain door at a certain time. He did so, and at the stated time, the door opened, a hand reached out and pulled him in, and there was ..... a MiG for him to examine!

Well, off to another birthday party, this time with my middle son.

[Rían]

I think Lewis was CoE (Church of England), IIRC, Gwaimir. I'll try to confirm that. I'm almost positive he was NOT Lutheran, though.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Och, of course! I meant Anglican, not Lutheran. Silly person *bops self over head*

And when we're talking about intelligent Christians, we can't forget Tolkien! The man was a genius! And Lewis! And all of those Inkling chaps!