Writing using Tengwar characters

[Rían]

No problem! Anyone who's read this thread knows I love talking about Tengwar!

It looks like we have another Tengwar convert, Ruinel! Yay!

For me, it's an enjoyable way to feel Middle-Earth-y w/o having to learn Sindarin or Quenya. Also, I can write Tengwar by myself (like when I'm standing in some stupid long line) - whereas with the Elvish languages, you need someone to talk to, and there aren't too many of those people around.

I would recommend learning the English mode Tengwar - check the first post of this thread where I have added links to what I consider to be the 2 best sites. Then print yourself out a copy of the chart, jot down the vowel marks on it, along with the abbreviations for 'the', of', 'of the' and 'and', and any other notes you want, stash it in your purse along with some blank sheets of paper, and voila! you're all set to practice during those annoying waiting times.

For me, memorizing in groups was v. helpful. The characters are shaped the way they are for a specific reason. For example, the first group (that I call the 'p' group, cause they all look kinda like p's) consists of numbers 1, 2, 5 and 6. That's the upper-left block of 4 characters. 1 is 't', 2 is 'p'. 1 has an open bow, 2 has a closed bow. Now say 't' - your lips are open. Now say 't' and then tap your lips closed - you are now saying 'p'! So a closed bow represents kind of a "more closed" airpath. Same with 'd' and 'b'. This applies mainly with the first 18.

(Or just ignore all that if it doesn't help! I'm a technical-type person that likes language details, so it was helpful to me.)

The next group I memorized was the 'b'-looking group - 9, 10, 13,14. Then the 'q' looking group - 3, 4, 7, 8, and then the 'd' looking group - 11, 12, 15, 16. Then 17 & 18 go together, and 21 and 22 kinda go together. Anyway, just an idea.

[Ruinel]

Oh... you have forgotten me. I was posting here before, remember? But I've been lurking. Just haven't had the time to sit down and make any more lovely Tengwar for the thread. I've been trying to work on my Quenya. But I will post something soon.

[Arien the Maia]

thanks! I printed out a copy of one of the charts last night and began to make flash cards! go me! anywho...I just need to figure out which way to write...sounds or looks! I read somewhere that you can do it either way....I got the impression that the whole "sounding the word out " thing is mainly reserved for Quenya, whereas for English writing the word out is the best way to go I guess...I'll just have to remember that

[Rían]

About your question - it's written by SOUND.

However, as I mentioned, Tolkien did make some concessions to the English language, like with the silent 'e'. I write mostly by sound, but if there might be some problem with understanding what the word is, I will sometimes either partially or completely spell it out. Whatever makes the word easiest to read is what I do.

I write 'as' as 'az', both because it's phonetic and because it looks pretty that way (the 'z' character is pretty!) I write 'us' as 'us'.

There's no "correct" way, really, in the English mode, or any other language mode outside of the Elvish languages - the main point is to get your message across. If you look at all the attachments that we've all posted, we all have different styles (I think I've converted most people to 'az', tho, because it looks prettier). But we can all read what we write, even tho we might write it differently.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Oh... you have forgotten me. I was posting here before, remember? But I've been lurking. Just haven't had the time to sit down and make any more lovely Tengwar for the thread. I've been trying to work on my Quenya. But I will post something soon.

No, I was TALKING to you, a fellow Tengwar devotee, as we were both looking upon a potential NEW Tengwar devotee (Arien). Of course I haven't forgotten you

[Ruinel]

yay! I was gone but not forgotten.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
About your question - it's written by SOUND.

However, as I mentioned, Tolkien did make some concessions to the English language, like with the silent 'e'. I write mostly by sound, but if there might be some problem with understanding what the word is, I will sometimes either partially or completely spell it out. Whatever makes the word easiest to read is what I do.

I write 'as' as 'az', both because it's phonetic and because it looks pretty that way (the 'z' character is pretty!) I write 'us' as 'us'.

There's no "correct" way, really, in the English mode, or any other language mode outside of the Elvish languages - the main point is to get your message across. If you look at all the attachments that we've all posted, we all have different styles (I think I've converted most people to 'az', tho, because it looks prettier). But we can all read what we write, even tho we might write it differently.

ok...I've been trying to write things out by sound mostly. I've been using "az" for "as" too (i love the z character!) ...but now that I think about it, English really is a hard language to learn...so many different sounds spelled very weirdly!....congratulations to everyone who has mastered it as a second language!

[Rían]

Arien, if you can get to a copy of Letters of JRRT, check out his letter #118, the second sample, which is a Christmas letter written to a friend in Tengwar. Tolkien does both sound and spell- mainly sound, but spelling where it helps. Again, I think the point is clarity .... and FUN!

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Arien, if you can get to a copy of Letters of JRRT, check out his letter #118, the second sample, which is a Christmas letter written to a friend in Tengwar. Tolkien does both sound and spell- mainly sound, but spelling where it helps. Again, I think the point is clarity .... and FUN!

"Letters" is on my Birthday and Christmas lists! yes, it is fun! hopefully I can post some of my longer Tegwar inscrpitions on my webpage that way I can have more without attaching so many files

[Rían]

Oh, also something to keep in mind after you're married -

When you guys have a tiff (a sad but inevitable happening - just be sure to "fight clean" and remember you're on the same team - couldn't help slipping in that advice ) - writing in Tengwar in your journal with a sad expression on your face, sniffing and with teary eyes, can really make him wonder!!!! (heh heh!)

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Oh, also something to keep in mind after you're married -

When you guys have a tiff (a sad but inevitable happening - just be sure to "fight clean" and remember you're on the same team - couldn't help slipping in that advice ) - writing in Tengwar in your journal with a sad expression on your face, sniffing and with teary eyes, can really make him wonder!!!! (heh heh!)

of course! journal writing is theraputic too!

[Arien the Maia]

here's a little something that I did just now b/c I'm board! I have a pitcture of Feanor that I drew , which is now used as my wallpaper desktop on my computer at work...Ive added this lovely inscription because Mark is my fiance and he;s the person who modeled for me when I was drawing the picture of Feanor.....did I make any mistakes? tell me please...I want to learn how to do this right!

[Arien the Maia]

I don't know if this link was already posted but I think it's helpful if you are writing english Phonetically

here

[Rían]

Yes, it looks perfect - "I love Mark" I see you used the "25 for 'r' - do you like the way it looks? I think it adds a little variety.

Thanks for the link! That's a v. nice chart - I've never seen it before. I made a similar one for myself by combining the two charts from the links I gave (I wrote notes by hand with my scribbly writing), but this is a much cleaner version. I like it!

The only thing I think might be incorrect is the "qu" and the "ld" - I've never seen #24 as "qu", and when Tolkien wanted to write the "qu" sound, he wrote a "K" then a "W". So I think that other Tengwar writers may not know that one. I try to stick with the ones that are very definite, just so others can read it. And I actually have "lh" for #28 in my chart. But it's not common, so I don't even use it.

I think I'll print it out, but I'll also add the number references that Tolkien used in his chart in the LoTR appendix, because it's handy to write "I like to use #25 for 'r'", instead of "I like to use that y-looking-thingy for 'r'".

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Yes, it looks perfect - "I love Mark" I see you used the "25 for 'r' - do you like the way it looks? I think it adds a little variety.

Thanks for the link! That's a v. nice chart - I've never seen it before. I made a similar one for myself by combining the two charts from the links I gave (I wrote notes by hand with my scribbly writing), but this is a much cleaner version. I like it!

The only thing I think might be incorrect is the "qu" and the "ld" - I've never seen #24 as "qu", and when Tolkien wanted to write the "qu" sound, he wrote a "K" then a "W". So I think that other Tengwar writers may not know that one. I try to stick with the ones that are very definite, just so others can read it. And I actually have "lh" for #28 in my chart. But it's not common, so I don't even use it.

I think I'll print it out, but I'll also add the number references that Tolkien used in his chart in the LoTR appendix, because it's handy to write "I like to use #25 for 'r'", instead of "I like to use that y-looking-thingy for 'r'".

yes I like th "y" character for "r" rather than the "n" character.....I remember reading somewhere that the "y" character should be used following a vowel and that the "n" one should be used to start words or following a consanant (but I'm not sure if it really matters)
here's a question....when you write the word "bought" or any other words that have that silent "gh" in them, do you write them out letter by letter or not?

[Rían]

For "bought"? Hmm, it would probably depend upon my mood and the sentence -

I would either write "bot" or "bought". If it was a sentence like "I bought a car today!" I might write "bot", because the thing I bought is very clear and close, so you could figure out it means "bought". For a sentence like "I don't know if he bought that or not", I might spell it all the way out.

When in doubt, I spell out! (reminds me of the O.J. Simpson trial .... )

For words that have synonyms (through, threw), I usually spell them out, unless the meaning is really easy to catch.

Yeah, I read that about the 'y' character too - but it wasn't a hard-and-fast rule, so I ignored it And again, they're BOTH r's, anyway, so there's not a clarity issue.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
For "bought"? Hmm, it would probably depend upon my mood and the sentence -

I would either write "bot" or "bought". If it was a sentence like "I bought a car today!" I might write "bot", because the thing I bought is very clear and close, so you could figure out it means "bought". For a sentence like "I don't know if he bought that or not", I might spell it all the way out.

When in doubt, I spell out! (reminds me of the O.J. Simpson trial .... )

For words that have synonyms (through, threw), I usually spell them out, unless the meaning is really easy to catch.

Yeah, I read that about the 'y' character too - but it wasn't a hard-and-fast rule, so I ignored it And again, they're BOTH r's, anyway, so there's not a clarity issue.

thanks! I'll keep posting stuff! when I have the Lord's Prayer done I want to post it on my website!

[Arien the Maia]

does anyone know where I kind find the tengwar equivilent of the "+, ?, and !" signs?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
does anyone know where I kind find the tengwar equivilent of the "+, ?, and !" signs?

oops never mind, I already had the notes on it but I misplaced them....shame on me

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
oops never mind, I already had the notes on it but I misplaced them....shame on me

Hey, no problem, they're not very important. I mean, how often are you going to do maths in Tengwar?

Using sound for Tengwar is far easier, methinks. How fun is it trying to do 'beautiful' etc in Tengwar? Ach- too many carriers (I, unlike RÃ*an, don't have a problem with carriers- but too many is never good!)

I would either write "bot" or "bought". If it was a sentence like "I bought a car today!" I might write "bot", because the thing I bought is very clear and close, so you could figure out it means "bought". For a sentence like "I don't know if he bought that or not", I might spell it all the way out.

Yeah, it also depends on what accent you have. RÃ*an, I assume you are American? "Bot" would be weird here. It would be more 'bawt'. But, hey, your preference, really.