05-14-2003, 09:27 PM | #601 |
The Insufferable
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I note with a sigh that the extended lengths that you're going to to try and justify X, Y and Z component of the film really isn't as bad as it seems only make them seem more like... well, like screw-ups which need to be explained away and justified.
Iron Parrot, above you have argued that the aforementioned attack resolves problems, and yet you fail to realize the problems it creates. Let me add to what Melko has already said. Helm's deep was, at the time of the battle, inhabited by the much of the population of the westfold. That's quite a few people. In the films, however, after a brief scene which depicts an attack on generic Rohirrim, we are given to believe that somehow the tiny population of Edoras is the really important group. Why? Why does the population of Edoras make it any more dramatic than the much larger group of civilians that were already there?
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05-14-2003, 09:46 PM | #602 | ||
Elf Lord
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05-14-2003, 10:02 PM | #603 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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I sincerely can't roll my pantslegs up high enough for some of the sophistry vomited forth in this screed.
You know, Peter J. raised the cash, took a huge gamble, and it's currently paying off. Read it, deal with it, live with it. He didn't ask your permission. Tough. J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" it ain't. Quite simply, NO film could ever be so. Some folks can revel to their dying day that they are part of a super-secret-decoder-ring-in-Elvish-only club of elites. Me, I don't care, frankly, at this point whether Jackson included this-or-that in his films. Tolkien's world will never be lessened in my own imagination. Too bad so much time and effort is wasted in such useless "how many angels can dance on the head of a balrog" arguments. Go outside. It's spring. Smell the flowers. Feel the love. I'm climbing mountains. See y'all in winter.
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 05-14-2003 at 10:04 PM. |
05-15-2003, 07:55 AM | #604 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Hi bropous! Wait for me! I need to put on my red lipstick! Har har har!
I'm glad this thread got out of the gutter! It's a case where you should agree to disagree. There could be a scale from..."Tolkien's writing is sacred, no movie should ever be attempted"....to ..."As long as there are elves, hobbits, dwarves and a wizard named Gandalf, I don't care". I think I would fit in at...."Tolkiens books stand on their own, but I enjoy films that take a few liberties, in the name of entertainment".
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05-15-2003, 09:53 AM | #605 | |
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2) No offense, but that sounds rather funny.
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05-15-2003, 10:29 AM | #606 |
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Rephrase it for me, Mr. hoo hoo
I forgot the "me" part! sorry!
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-15-2003 at 11:32 AM. |
05-15-2003, 11:13 AM | #607 |
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05-15-2003, 11:16 AM | #608 | |
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......... just joking. |
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05-15-2003, 11:30 AM | #609 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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I'm serious Gwai! I was just teasing! If you were here, I would have pinched you and winked! So how would you phrase the first level of "How I tolerate changes of Tolkien's work when making a movie"?
You are right...my quick dash off "stands on it's own" does sound funny.
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05-15-2003, 11:33 AM | #610 |
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Oh, yes...I left out the word "me"!
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05-15-2003, 11:35 AM | #611 | |
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05-15-2003, 12:00 PM | #612 | |
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If we agree to disagree, then what is the point of continuing to post in any thread at this or any forum? If we do not debate our sides, why would we come here and challenge other views? There are poignant sayings that involve thermal energy and removing yourself from a partitioned interior section of a dwelling specificly designed for the preparation of nutrients that I could post here that would be appropriate for my response to your own post but would inevitably invoke negative repercussions on me. Therefore, I will not post them here. It is unfortunate that I have offended you with my posts and perhaps you should shelter your eyes and scroll down when you see my avitar or nick. And by the way, it is fortunate for those that do enjoy reading my posts that I'm not off spending my time baking cookies for the neighbor kiddies or dulling my brain by sitting in front of the TV watching soap operas while pondering the best detergent for getting out the skid marks in someone else's underwear. Instead I'm using my mind in interesting and unusual ways, utilizing the intelligence, curriousity and imagination that I possess. And, just to let you know, I'm happy here in the 'gutter'. So. thanks, you are too kind. And... you have a nice day. http://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/ruinkai/FIREdevil.gif EDIT (by me). I would like to add that this post in no way reflects my opinion of homemakers in general. But was intended as a focus toward anyone who posts comments like a child, and acts like a hypocrite. If you're going to dish it out, you better be able to take it. Last edited by Ruinel : 05-15-2003 at 03:49 PM. |
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05-15-2003, 12:21 PM | #613 |
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personally i think that the movies are ok.
they are very flawed but to addapt a series of this scope for filmis an insane task. Not everyone out there reads tolkien believe it or not. So PJ was/is faced with this predicament: Striking a balance between (1) making a totally literal interpretation wich would baffle the viewers who havnt read the books and take many many hours a piece to watch (2) making the movie short enough to view in theaters (3) keeping any plot that he includes going. Therefor he had to remove some entire plots werent completly necesary for the main storyline. Sure we love some stuff that is missing, or done slightly different, but you have to realize that making a complete and literal interpretation wouldnt be appropriate for the situation
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05-15-2003, 02:20 PM | #614 |
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Strongbow: Just out of curiousity, what do you think of the things he outright added in that we "know" didn't happen, such as Aragorn falling off the cliff? Do you think it would have been better to eliminate that sequence and include, say, more dialogue between Treebeard/ the ents and the hobbits? IOW, would the movie have still "worked" AND been even better because it stuck to the source material more?
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05-15-2003, 04:05 PM | #615 | ||
The Insufferable
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I do not see any way whatsoever that a movie which advertises itself as 'Tolkien's Lord of the Rings', and is not, is an acceptable situation. I do not ask the impossible task of a perfect film, only a reasonable portrayal of Tolkien's world. The absolute rubbish that has been thrown in by Jackson bothers me to no end. Strongbow: I am not in the least bit convinced that your post was well thought out or even original thought. It is barely worth replying to, and that because of the argument, which is common to the point of being overused. I understand the nescessity of altering things during the transition from text to film. I simply dissagree that the changes made were justified. I have not complained about replacing Glorfindel with Arwen, because that small change makes sense. I disagree vehemently with the change in the Fords of Bruinen scene, however. That change reduced one of the most climactic scenes in the first book, the amazing cliffhanger that ends part one, to... trite crap. Is this nescessary? Does it make a better film? Absolutely not!
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05-15-2003, 04:10 PM | #616 | |
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2.) Clue: Click on the profile button. Scroll to the bottom. If you really don't like someone, just add them to your ignore list. Then if he posts some silly bunch of insults, which is all he really ever does, his post will only say "This person is on your ignore list". If you really WANT to read that person's tripe, despite your past experience, you can click a link to display the post anyway, but I don't recommend it because it will just be more of the same. I would say I agreed to disagree before coming here, and I also agreed to express WHY and HOW I disagree, for the amusement of all who think me a fool.
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05-15-2003, 04:17 PM | #617 | |
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As for me: I'm a big girl , and I can take care of myself. I don't need an ignore list to sheild my delicate eyes from other people's posts. |
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05-15-2003, 04:45 PM | #618 | |
The Insufferable
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 05-15-2003 at 04:47 PM. |
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05-15-2003, 04:57 PM | #619 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Back on topic, why shouldn't a screenwriter create one "might-have-been" scene to accomplish the result of several scenes that wouldn't fit?
And is there a maximum number of these might-have-been scenes allowed before the readers of the book think it is too drastic a change? And is the number of such scenes less for fanatical fans? And should screenwriters be guided in the opinions of casual readers, or be totally governed by the fanatical fans?
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05-15-2003, 05:03 PM | #620 | ||||
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I like you both, and I like to read (most of) your posts - they're insightful and intelligent and funny. Now just cool your jets and make up, please!
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