Bush addresses the world- Pending War

[Sween]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
JD: it's comments like these that's gonna get your beloved thread closed. Is it even possible for you to debate someone with an opposing opinion without getting personal?

has JD ever heard the expression 'life is not black and white its shades of grey'! I think that pretty much sums up the american aproach to the world these days!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
JD: it's comments like these that's gonna get your beloved thread closed. Is it even possible for you to debate someone with an opposing opinion without getting personal?

You have nerve talking about bringing personal into it.

[Baby-K]

No - you would much rather live in your rose colored world.

JD you have no clue about the world I live in, but if it has to be rose coloured, yeah I'd rather have it a million times over rather than being so arrogant as to assume that I have the power to solve the world's problems by totally ignoring the opinions of others and just buggering ahead with no consideration of the consequences.

Are you REALLY this dense? I meant we have retracted statements before when we have found out we were wrong. I was not referring to that particular statement. I guess I really have to spell things out for you to understand.

So you admit that the US government are wrong sometimes? Geez, how 'bout that? Hell, maybe one day they'll admit they were wrong about the entire damned war!

Seemed more like a lecture. I guess maybe as you say - it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

Wow, again some agreement

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sween
has JD ever heard the expression 'life is not black and white its shades of grey'! I think that pretty much sums up the american aproach to the world these days!

if you look through past threads - you will see that I have always said that the world is shades of gray and not black and white. It's the people who say that there is never a need for war who live in a black and white world.

[Sween]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
if you look through past threads - you will see that I have always said that the world is shades of gray and not black and white. It's the people who say that there is never a need for war who live in a black and white world.

ive never said there wasnt a need for war. Second world war was needed. But what i do hold to is that war is a last resort and as stated by many people they dont think that the case as do most governments the American and also the british has been guilty of just decideding war is the only answer

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Baby-K
JD you have no clue about the world I live in, but if it has to be rose coloured, yeah I'd rather have it a million times over rather than being so arrogant as to assume that I have the power to solve the world's problems by totally ignoring the opinions of others and just buggering ahead with no consideration of the consequences.

So you admit that the US government are wrong sometimes? Geez, how 'bout that?

I've always said the US isn't perfect. it's you guys who only want to hear the things you want to hear.

Hell, maybe one day they'll admit they were wrong about the entire damned war!

maybe we will. Although - it'll take a lot for this war to be wrong. We'd actually have to lose it. Or the Middle East would have to become completely fall apart. But I don't see how saving millions of Iraqis from torture is going to be wrong or that preventing a regime who has demonstrated that they have NO regard for human life what so ever developing biological and chemical weapons.

[Baby-K]

I've always said the US isn't perfect. it's you guys who only want to hear the things you want to hear.

Yeah - it's a conspiracy

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sween
ive never said there wasnt a need for war. Second world war was needed. But what i do hold to is that war is a last resort and as stated by many people they dont think that the case as do most governments the American and also the british has been guilty of just decideding war is the only answer

After 12 years of the UN doing nothing. After 17 resolutions. We didn't just decide to go to war. First of all when it was first talked about openly - was after 9/11- then it waiteds for a year, then we went to the UN, then weapons inspectors went (after Hussein first refused). Hussein only complied as we tightened our finger on the trigger.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
After 12 years of the UN doing nothing. After 17 resolutions. We didn't just decide to go to war. First of all when it was first talked about openly - was after 9/11- then it waiteds for a year, then we went to the UN, then weapons inspectors went (after Hussein first refused). Hussein only complied as we tightened our finger on the trigger.

Yes, but you didn't need to actually pull the trigger

[Lizra]

In my opinion, civilians have no comprehension of the bizarro world of war. I think the arm chair soldiers would behave differently if they were in the battlefield for awhile. Who knows what happened?....The people involved.

There's going to be more death and destruction. That's what it has boiled down to here. (thanks to Sadam Hussein, IMO!) Spend some time trying to imagine you are one of the young soldiers recently sent out to fight, or a person who has lived in fear of being terrorized by the leader of their own country for the past decade. Desperate times, desperate individuals, I really don't enjoy this "what's going on in the battlefield today" detailed anyalisis. If you've got guerrilla warfare tactics going down, wouldn't you be a little "suspicious". Why do the US and British have to play it squeaky clean, yet the Republican guard are fine being orcs? Go get shot at for a couple months, then see how your mind works.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Lizra
In my opinion, civilians have no comprehension of the bizarro world of war. I think the arm chair soldiers would behave differently if they were in the battlefield for awhile. Who knows what happened?....The people involved.

There's going to be more death and destruction. That's what it has boiled down to here. (thanks to Sadam Hussein, IMO!) Spend some time trying to imagine you are one of the young soldiers recently sent out to fight, or a person who has lived in fear of being terrorized by the leader of their own country for the past decade. Desperate times, desperate individuals, I really don't enjoy this "what's going on in the battlefield today" detailed anyalisis. If you've got guerrilla warfare tactics going down, wouldn't you be a little "suspicious". Why do the US and British have to play it squeaky clean, yet the Republican guard are fine being orcs? Go get shot at for a couple months, then see how your mind works.

Very true

Although hypocracy is one of my better talents........I should think twice about using it here..........Gods know I wouldn't be willing to get killed for this cause.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Yes, but you didn't need to actually pull the trigger

Yes we did - because it's the only thing Hussein understands. Now we'll remove him from power and there will be one less dictator in the world and one less brutal regime.

And yes - I am perfectly aware that we helped him in th 1980's. I am so perfectly aware that the reason we helped him was because of Russia and Iran.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Although - it'll take a lot for this war to be wrong. We'd actually have to lose it. Or the Middle East would have to become completely fall apart.

If the outcome of this war will be a stable, sound and democratic government of Iraq, within a reasonable amount of time, then I'll say the war has been justified. Though I fear it is a long way to go to get there

If the coalision don't succeed in winning the peace, I'll regret I supported the war. And the Middle-East region will be more explosive than ever.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Very true

Although hypocracy is one of my better talents........I should think twice about using it here..........Gods know I wouldn't be willing to get killed for this cause.

Why - protecting millions of civlians isn't your thing? I mean there are a THOUSAND reasons why Hussein should go. You can pcik anything - and it's still valid. We went after Meloshevic for much less.

[jerseydevil]

Well we just took control of Karbala and has been secured.

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Lizra
In my opinion, civilians have no comprehension of the bizarro world of war. I think the arm chair soldiers would behave differently if they were in the battlefield for awhile. Who knows what happened?....The people involved.

There's going to be more death and destruction. That's what it has boiled down to here. (thanks to Sadam Hussein, IMO!) Spend some time trying to imagine you are one of the young soldiers recently sent out to fight, or a person who has lived in fear of being terrorized by the leader of their own country for the past decade. Desperate times, desperate individuals, I really don't enjoy this "what's going on in the battlefield today" detailed anyalisis. If you've got guerrilla warfare tactics going down, wouldn't you be a little "suspicious". Why do the US and British have to play it squeaky clean, yet the Republican guard are fine being orcs? Go get shot at for a couple months, then see how your mind works.

Liz yer right in many ways...........but imagining it still wouldn't motivate me to believe war is the answer

Why - protecting millions of civlians isn't your thing? I mean there are a THOUSAND reasons why Hussein should go. You can pcik anything - and it's still valid. We went after Meloshevic for much less.

Would you take a minute & listen to yourself? Sounds like yer PROUD of these wars?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Baby-K
Liz yer right in many ways...........but imagining it still wouldn't motivate me to believe war is the answer

So you think war is never the answer?

Would you take a minute & listen to yourself? Sounds like yer PROUD of these wars?

I do think they were the right thing. Meloshevic was killing 100's of thousands of people. he had concentration camps. Remember - the world declared "never again"? So yes - I think these wars ARE justified. Do I wish there was no war, no poverity - of course I do. But that's not the make believe world we live in. We live in a world where sometimes in order to protect millions - you have to kill a few people.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Why - protecting millions of civlians isn't your thing? I mean there are a THOUSAND reasons why Hussein should go. You can pcik anything - and it's still valid. We went after Meloshevic for much less.

No, because I'm sitting in my nice comfortable house and not risking having my bleedin' head blown off. If I felt strongly enough about it I would've enlisted in the armed forces (obviously).

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Baby-K
JD you have no clue about the world I live in

-pops out of lurking corner-

Not trying to be rude or anything, I just don't understand: Why do you know all about the world he lives in, but he has no clue about yours?

-returns to shadowy corner-

[Sister Golden Hair]

I have just wasted my entire lunch hour going through the "anti war" thread and this one. The "anti war" thread is now closed. Anymore threads created about the war, will be closed on site. Discussion will only be permitted in one thread about a topic.

I thought it was clear in the opening post of this thread, but appearently not. This is the only time it will be stated again. If you wish to participate in this discussion, then do so without the personal attacks and flames. If there are anymore violations, nomatter how small, this thread will be closed, and there will not be another. I mean it people.