10-07-2005, 01:12 AM | #581 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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That's why I said "if".
So do you consider me part of the "'religious right' of the moot"?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-07-2005, 01:37 AM | #582 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Yes.
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10-07-2005, 01:49 AM | #583 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Well, I don't. My position on the legality of early abortions is certainly different, and IMO the religious right is too fanatical about politics.
Then do your comments apply to me? But looking back on this particular thread, you only criticized the "HEINOUS hypocrisy of the religious uber-right". I won't ask if you think I fall in that group. I think I"ll just drop it - I'm too tired now to sort out the things said on the different threads.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-07-2005, 11:32 AM | #584 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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No one is Right or Left, it's all subjective....my right is your central and visa versa....then of course we have those on "the left coast"
Keep it civil folks.
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10-07-2005, 11:33 AM | #585 | ||||||||
Elf Lord
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I think this problem arises because we conflate our own personal values, ideas of right and wrong etc (which don't exist outside of our minds) with other things like societal norms, laws and the like, which are very complex, sociocultural phenomena. Quote:
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But there is a lot about all this stuff that's mysterious and I don't claim to have all the answers. I've read several moral philosophers in my time and all of it seemed like a load of bollocks to be honest. Quote:
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10-07-2005, 11:45 AM | #586 | |
Elf Lord
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Didn't there used to be a "religion and politics" thread? I think in the case of the Repubicans (who realised that the reason they nearly lost in 2000 was because 3m+ Christian voters stayed at home because of Bush's past misdemeanours, and subsequently adopted Christian policies by the shed load to appease them) it may well be turning on them. See also http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...587121,00.html |
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10-07-2005, 11:50 AM | #587 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Light is faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you speak to them.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
10-07-2005, 12:21 PM | #588 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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Now, about the definition of "religious right." A person who is a church-going, anti-homosexual marriage, anti-abortion rights, pro-Intelligent Design to be taught in school Christian, in MY book, belongs by DEfault to the religious right. It's not necessarily a BAD thing, its just a demographical fact. Or whatever.
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10-07-2005, 12:28 PM | #589 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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well IMO there isn't any definition to categorize Lotesse, she's one of a kind, and all ours on the Moot.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
10-07-2005, 12:35 PM | #590 |
Hobbit
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I don't mean any offense, but what is a virtuous person, in your opinion? Someone who thinks anything goes? So long as nobody is hurt, save the babies, life should be just one big orgy? I can understand feeling compassion for one another. Christians should have more of that. But there must be a moral foundation, shouldn't there? I guess if you believe humankind is no more noble than the apes, then I can see your point. The animal kingdom does as it pleases. The sexes don't feel any kind of bond for each other. It's propagate the species and repeat. But, as humans, shouldn't we have some sense of morality? Murder is wrong, whether it's a fetus or not. Same sex couples are not biologically productive. They're simply giving in to unatural insticts.
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10-07-2005, 12:45 PM | #591 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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morality is relative to individuals and the societies they live in... but the most successful societies give their people as much freedom as possible as long as those freedoms don't directly harm anyone else i.e. we let people drive even though you can get killed while driving... we don't let you drive drunk because it is much more likely you will kill someone we don't just ban acts because we personally do not like them... in my opinion, that is immoral i.e. we don't outlaw offensive bumper stickers on cars
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10-07-2005, 01:04 PM | #592 |
Hobbit
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I mean that from even an evolutionary perspective, homosexuality is unproductive. It is biologically unnatural. It is also, in my opinion, psychologically unnatural (even single-minded Freud believed so) and morally wrong. It may not harm people physically, but it harms the value system that has ruled Western civilization for over 1,000 years. But, as I said, if you believe humans are nothing but common animals, then this goes out the window. Our civilization is then undignified, should crumble and create an atmosphere of "every man for himself" henceforth. Anything goes. You don't want to be burdened with safe sex? Happen to slip up, "oh, well, just pay a small fee and forget about it." Don't want to consider the moral and biological implications that go along with homosexuality? "Oh, well, HIV is not so deadly anymore. And you had a good orgy, so it's all worth, eh?" Such a civilization is irresponsible. Anything goes. Trippy, ain't it?
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10-07-2005, 01:05 PM | #593 | |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
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I agree...Uh, what did i say! Wait! I said I'm hungry....yeah, that's it
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10-07-2005, 01:07 PM | #594 |
Hobbit
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Would you think less of LOTR if Aragorn wedded Elrond instead? Or if Pippin and Merry got hitched? Oh, but, marriage has no meaning to liberals, though, does it? It's all a bunch of hogwash. Just sign a form and be done with it. There's nothing holy about anything. Anything goes.
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10-07-2005, 01:10 PM | #595 | |
Elf Lord
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YOur demographical "fact" is an incorrect media assertion with as much relevance to reality as "red state" or "blue state". What religious right really means is anyone who opposes the cartoonist's view of what reality should be like. I am not in the religious right, by the way. I modestly and humbly admit, confess, and profess and that I am religiously CORRECT - which is not quite the same thing. (Let me hasten to add that I do not know who is going to hell on that basis. Anyone may choose to and none who so choose will be hindered! However those who choose otherwise do have "an way of escape" Providentially provided. And, unfortunately for the solely self-oriented,, those escaping do tend towards certain conformities with Providence, who has graciously told us and lived for us what is required, as well as made up the deficits inherent in us. That message, however, has to penetrate the carapace of our self-indulgent wishes, desires, and existence. That's the bad news/good news!)
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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10-07-2005, 01:16 PM | #596 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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as i brought up way back in this thread, a few hundred years ago it would be seen as just as "unnatural" and even immoral for a woman to hold a job or raise a child on her own, by choice as opposed to accident... and some even claimed that such things would destroy society... cat's sleeping with dogs and all that (some still do ) there's even a good historical, or natural, reason, why women were homemakers and men providers... both jobs were simply too intensive and time consuming to be taken care of by one person... but times change... technological advances, the availability of housing and food, etc. make it possible for a one parent family, and for women to hold jobs that were once exclusively male basic assumptions about what is moral and right change all the time the question i would ask is how does it personally effect you if two consenting adults, male or female, decide to marry one another? would it make you become irresponsible all of the sudden? would you just not care anymore? or would you live your life the same way you always have?
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-07-2005, 01:18 PM | #597 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-07-2005, 01:26 PM | #598 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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10-07-2005, 01:30 PM | #599 |
Elf Lord
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Ahh, BJ and the moral relativism of life. I keep trying to point out that if his position is consistently maintained, there is not recourse for the outvoted and outpowered to whine when the majority does to them as it will. But then, he insists that his idea of morality is "righter". His constant appeal to "ought" is indicative of a belief in absolute morality by which moral positions may be judged.
He just wants his to be numero uno! I disagree. On BJ's lights, I'm just as correct as he is. He cannot demur.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-07-2005, 01:36 PM | #600 | |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
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Saying without saying it, but still...you said it.....well done. What's frightening is the often (I mean OFTEN) picking and choosing of 'teachings', analysis, and varied juxtapositions that pervades the eminent book... Thank goodness we have this forum to 'feel' our way through important issues without the 'labels' we place on each other There are huge misconceptions about ‘sides’, ‘teams’, and ‘wings’ [Red Wing fans not withstanding], TRUTH is we wear the same jersey (Human!, errrr, I think--Spock ) but perhaps sew on a lot of patches, many we share here at the moot, what we have fun discussing are the ones we don't share, eh? RÃ*an has done a good job (more than should be needed) to show a tolerant endeavor in this discussion while being honest with the posters by being honest with RÃ*an, per say…..which is the important lesson to learn and exercise for further engrossing ‘conversation’….IMHO
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Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! Last edited by EarthBound : 10-07-2005 at 01:37 PM. |
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