09-24-2006, 06:40 AM | #581 |
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It’s interesting to see how much the debate on abortion differs between the US and say Europe.
Since 1973 when abortion became legal in USA, about 70 countries have liberalised or legalised abortion. In most cases, after all the pros and cons had been ventilated and both sides had had their says, there was a parliamentary voting or referendum on the matter and afterwards the question of abortion was settled, basically for good. This is how things are normally handled in democracies - a decision is made and the case is then dismissed. Why this isn’t the case in the US, I think is because of the Constitution. Despite its age, the Constitution plays such an important role in American politics in ways that are hardly seen in any other country. The Constitution is almost sacred. As a result, the legal status of abortion is not up to the public to decide. In western Europe, abortion has gained legitimacy after parliamentary majority decisions but in America, the right to abortion in America is a decision based on an interpretation of the Constitution – an interpretation that can be drawn differently, by other judges in the Supreme Court in the future. So the abortion debate never dies. In a deeply religious America, moral questions never gets technical as they tend to in Europe. Americans debate fundamental things in life much more extensively than in Europe, which is why abortion can never become a health issue in the US. Abortion becomes a question of “the right to life” or “the right to choose” and the life & death aspect is maybe the most fundamental question of all. This could be one explanation why a majority of the Americans are against abortion. By the way, I am NOT badmouthing the Constitution if anyone thought so
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09-24-2006, 02:56 PM | #582 | |
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An interesting post, Jonathon. I agree completely, and I'm very glad that our response to the issue differs from Europe's in the ways you mention.
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09-24-2006, 05:29 PM | #583 | ||||
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Also, what you and Lief said earlier in the thread got me thinking a lot about my own beliefs. I realise that I do not think a foetus is a person. I see them as part of the woman's body that has a functioning brain and human DNA. Quote:
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09-24-2006, 09:27 PM | #584 | ||
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09-25-2006, 12:43 AM | #585 | |||
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The way I see it, personhood is granted upon birth. I'm not attacking your own view, just defending mine here.
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09-25-2006, 10:21 AM | #586 | |||
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There are other variables; Size, level of development, and degree of dependence; none of those factors are defining characteristics of humans thus are not reasons to kill a human fetus. "Human Fetus" it is in the very semantics of the debate; what can we call this fetus? it can only be called a "human fetus" not because thats what it will become but because thats what it is.
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09-25-2006, 10:43 AM | #587 |
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Let's also reflect on the semantics of the word "personhood", for the sake of further discussion. Can a fetus develop a personhood at all without seeing, smelling or in any way directly experiencing the outside world? If one doesn't think so, location would be much less of a defining characteristic.
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09-25-2006, 11:27 AM | #588 | |||
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Why do you say that umbilical cord and the womb are so critically important? To the foetus, the umbilical cord is just life support and the womb is just a location. Quote:
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09-25-2006, 12:09 PM | #589 | ||
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09-25-2006, 12:27 PM | #590 | |||
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09-25-2006, 12:59 PM | #591 |
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Darth Rohirrous! You're back!
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09-25-2006, 02:18 PM | #592 | ||
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09-26-2006, 10:13 AM | #593 | |||
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how are ya hectorous?
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09-26-2006, 11:30 AM | #594 | |
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09-26-2006, 11:41 AM | #595 | |||
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09-26-2006, 03:02 PM | #596 | ||||
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My time on Entmoot has gotten me cynical .
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09-27-2006, 08:58 PM | #597 | |||
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I agree that it's okay to be on the offensive. I just didn't want to take on two roles of attacking and defending. Anyways.
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It's the grey area... I got nothin'. There are some areas of this debate where I have not made up my mind. I feel by the third trimester it's too late to have an abortion, but why? I don't know. Maybe third trimester abortions would be too unacceptable to society, and not having them is a good comprimise. (Or at least, the closest thing to a comprimise that pro-life and pro-choice will ever see, I imagine.) As for my own personal views? True, I don't see a third trimester abortion as killing a person, but I don't agree with them either. It is, like I said, in the grey area that I can't defend.
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09-27-2006, 09:01 PM | #598 | |
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Anyway, I'm really interested in this personhood question. Anyone want to throw out something?
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09-27-2006, 09:02 PM | #599 | ||
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I'll have a go...
IMO, these are the criteria for personhood: 1. Have human DNA 2. Be born 3. Possess a mind (Because of 3, Siamese twins are two people, because they both have minds.)
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09-27-2006, 09:07 PM | #600 |
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1) Define "mind".
2) What is your reason for defining personhood thus? It seems to be more of a nominal definiton; what I'm looking for is, "What is the very essence, the form, the 'what it is to be this thing', of personhood? What actually makes it so? And let us not only look into the quia, that it is, but also ask after the propter quid, on account of what it is so; for it seems that we cannot give with anything approaching certainty an answer without a cause.
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