*Discussion Thread* Of Nazgûl-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign (Calling all Nazgûl II)

[Valandil]

I think I like it best if the Morgul Lord is still unsure WHICH theory is the best. He's trying to find out.

It makes sense that he did not replace the real Ilmenzor (at Minas Ithil) for anther reason... the forces of Elendil and/or Isildur apparently took Minas Ithil some time before the Fall of Sauron - and Aratan & Ciryon (Isildur's 2nd & 3rd sons) were left to guard it while the rest joined the assault on Barad Dur.

I don't know if the Morgul Lord would have stayed behind enemy lines instead of with his Master, while the war was still going on... unless he was trapped there and had to provide cover for himself (and hey... when you can go invisible...).

It could even be imagined that the real Ilmenzor was basically brought under the control of the Morgul Lord during his captivity - and was later summoned east.

It was late in year 2 that Isildur departed for Rivendell... and sometime in year 3 when news of the Gladden arrived there - in the form of Ohtar, his squire and the shards of Narsil.

Thanks for the definition of AU. What do you think of it? I have a bit more to tell on Oreturion... we've had Val's view of him - now I want to share a bit of what he is thinking.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Gor, is there another purpose of me being Prof of Oriental Languages, because no body seems to be taking it?

Gives you some freedom to take classes of your own, if you wish. Or - the students could be few and 'public characters' - it's a new program at USAT, and you're just beginning it.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Gives you some freedom to take classes of your own, if you wish. Or - the students could be few and 'public characters' - it's a new program at USAT, and you're just beginning it.

Yes, TD, I think it is supposed you have some students, just not the characters of this story. However I think it would be fine for you to teach something else in addition. Say "Oriental warfare", or will you give "oriental sparring" lessons?

[Gordis]

Well, Val, you surely write better than all of us put together, but I think it is no big news . Loved your posts.

I shall remember that Estelmo had no beard before Gladden, nice hint.

Question: have you brought a palantir with you? (You have 2 small ones in addition of the big at Amon Sul, is that right?)

Originally Posted by Valandil

I think I like it best if the Morgul Lord is still unsure WHICH theory is the best. He's trying to find out.

Yes, that was my idea. He just doesn't believe the official story.

Originally Posted by Valandil

It makes sense that he did not replace the real Ilmenzor (at Minas Ithil) for anther reason... the forces of Elendil and/or Isildur apparently took Minas Ithil some time before the Fall of Sauron - and Aratan & Ciryon (Isildur's 2nd & 3rd sons) were left to guard it while the rest joined the assault on Barad Dur.

Really? I didn't know that. Where is it written? HOME "Peoples..."? Please, tell me, it has a lot to do with Morgul Lord's tale.

Originally Posted by Valandil

It could even be imagined that the real Ilmenzor was basically brought under the control of the Morgul Lord during his captivity - and was later summoned east.

Yes, it was my idea. And Lord Morgul picked ALL his brain under torture, so he has all Ilmenzor's memories stored.

Originally Posted by Valandil

It was late in year 2 that Isildur departed for Rivendell... and sometime in year 3 when news of the Gladden arrived there - in the form of Ohtar, his squire and the shards of Narsil.

Thanks, I have no books with me now, so I was unsure...

Originally Posted by Valandil

Thanks for the definition of AU. What do you think of it? I have a bit more to tell on Oreturion... we've had Val's view of him - now I want to share a bit of what he is thinking.

Your posts are very interesting and helpful, apart from being a pleasure to read . I assume Oreturion, being noble, may be some distant relation of the King and has some Elven blood as well. That would explain his abilities.
Please, continue!

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Well, Val, you surely write better than all of us put together, but I think it is no big news . Loved your posts.
:
:
Question: have you brought a palantir with you? (You have 2 small ones in addition of the big at Amon Sul, is that right?)
:
:
Really? I didn't know that. Where is it written? HOME "Peoples..."? Please, tell me, it has a lot to do with Morgul Lord's tale.
:
:

The big news will come at the interview itself. Some 'news' leaking out.

No - I don't think Valandil would bring a palantir along with him when he traveled. I suppose they sit securely at their normal posts.

See Note #11 of 'The Disaster of the Gladden Fields' in UT for the information on Aratan and Ciryon at Minas Ithil. Do you have that book handy? If not - maybe visit a good book store and peek - but it doesn't say a lot more than I wrote about it. They were ordered there by Isildur to guard against Sauron using the path there to wreak more havoc on the Dunedain, if he should escape the seige.

(EDIT: oh - and thanks! And I'm done for now)

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Yes, TD, I think it is supposed you have some students, just not the characters of this story. However I think it would be fine for you to teach something else in addition. Say "Oriental warfare", or will you give "oriental sparring" lessons?

He can give Swan Speech! *hint, hint, nudge, nudge*

There is a certain, nice irony in it that an inhabitant of Nîn-In-Eilph, also named the Swanfleet IIRC, has to be taught Swan Speech by a nazgul that doesn't even like water that much.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

He can give Swan Speech! *hint, hint, nudge, nudge*

There is a certain, nice irony in it that an inhabitant of Nîn-In-Eilph, also named the Swanfleet IIRC, has to be taught Swan Speech by a nazgul that doesn't even like water that much.

I am afraid it will be the Black Swan Speech!

[Gordis]

Grey Wolf, your Penny is the only one who has not greeted the Chancellor-the Morgul Lord - yet. Do you wish to describe the meeting? Or you prefer to skip it?

[Earniel]

Well from BB's post in the game thread here one can conclude that Galadannun knows Swan Speech. It may very well be a skill he picked up before his nazgulification so it doesn't have to be black. I think you will find no better candidate. AND Swan Speech is a language, maybe not an oriental one, but it wouldn't look so strangely in the CV of a professor in languages.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Valandil

See Note #11 of 'The Disaster of the Gladden Fields' in UT for the information on Aratan and Ciryon at Minas Ithil. Do you have that book handy? If not - maybe visit a good book store and peek - but it doesn't say a lot more than I wrote about it. They were ordered there by Isildur to guard against Sauron using the path there to wreak more havoc on the Dunedain, if he should escape the seige.

Yes, you are right, Val, thanks. I have forgotten this note. I just looked at it:

note 11 "All three had fought in the War of the Alliance, but Aratan an Ciryon had not been in the invasion of Mordor and the siege of Barad-dûr, for Isildur had sent them to man his fortress of Minas Ithil, lest Sauron should escape Gil-galad and Elendil and seek to force away through Cirith Dúath (later called Cirith Ungol) and take vengeance on the Dúnedain before he was overcome."

But that means even more. The siege of Barad-dûr lasted 7 years, so if Aratan and Cyrion didn't participate in it at all, but sat instead in Minas Ithil, than it was recaptured SEVEN years BEFORE Barad-Dur! So that Ilmenzor, saved from the dungeons, was surely the original one. It is impossible that he has not seen a ringbearer or a single Calaquendi elf in 7 years staying in Gondor during the War or in 3-4 years after the War.

I have corrected my old posts #86 and #89 accordingly.


I add some chronology from the Tale of Years. Might be handy for the Info thread!

Second Age

3319 Ar-Pharazôn assails Valinor. Downfall of Númenor. Elendil and his sons escape.
3320 Foundations of the Realms in Exile: Arnor and Gondor. The Stones are divided (II, 54). Sauron returns to Mordor.
3429 Sauron attacks Gondor, takes Minas Ithil and burns the White Tree. Isildur escapes down Anduin and goes to Elendil in the North. Anárion defends Minas Anor and Osgiliath.
3430 The Last Alliance of Elves and Men is formed.
3431 Gil-galad and Elendil march east to Imladris.
3434 The host of the Alliance crosses the Misty Mountains. Battle of Dagorlad and defeat of Sauron. Siege of Barad-dûr begins.
3440 Anárion slain.
3441 Sauron overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad, who perish. Isildur takes the One Ring. Sauron passes away and the Ringwraiths go into the shadows. The Second Age ends.

Third Age

2 Isildur plants a seedling of the White Tree in Minas Anor. He delivers the South-kingdom to Meneldil. Disaster of the Gladden Fields; Isildur and his three elder sons are slain.
3 Ohtar brings the shards of Narsil to Imladris.
10 Valandil becomes King of Arnor.
49 OUR STORY BEGINS

[Lotesse]

Shah, TD, Valandil; good stuff! I'm still working my way through Valandil's chapter; it takes a little time but it's worth it. I like the "Cinderella" motif with Annawen.
TD, I like how Khamul's nicely pulling rank on the little knife'n'sword situation going on in Orrodel there; he IS Khamul, after all.

[CrazySquirrel]

Great posts today, TD, Shah, Rian...
Loved your posts, Val!

Very interesting guys those Oreturion and Estelmo... The first is like a Secret Service man.
Wasn't Elrond supposed to teach Val some mind-control?

And it is funny, those musings WHY had the Chancelor came to USAT.
Gor and Val, thanks for the INFO. Handy to have those dates easily accesible.

Gor, How old is the Chancellor? Estelmo is an old man 185, that's old. I think he will not live beyond 200. And he calls Ilmenzor a friend of his youth?

Gordie, fine new title! I propose new picture for Aiwendis. Where is she by the way? Hope to meet her at Commerce.... So she is after Val also? OH MY!

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Grey Wolf, your Penny is the only one who has not greeted the Chancellor-the Morgul Lord - yet. Do you wish to describe the meeting? Or you prefer to skip it?

Sorry, if i have been absent but seeing your long and eloquently written posts makes me feel a bit inferior writerwise.

[Lotesse]

I feel your pain, dear Grey Wolf; Valandil's writing is so good & so long it's intimidating! Ah, well, everybody's bit is as important as the others.

[Earniel]

Trust me, there is nothing like games like this one to improve your RPG-skills. I remember I was terribly daunted by playing with the 'big boys' in my first forrays in the RPG-forum. But this sort of game really helped. By playing with people whose writing you admire, you force yourself to put the bar on your own writing higher. You may not succeed immediatly but you have to try. You don't have to write much, just try to stick with the action. Heck, even after three years this is still a learning experience for me.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Frankly I do not see why people can't post their own description there themselves. As I've said before it's more practical, the game will be less dependant on one or two people to run, and people will remain in full control of their own character-description to edit it when necesary themselves without having first to relay the change to whoever is *patrolling* the formal thread and waiting for that person to make the change.

Yes, I was thinking that, too. The first couple of posts should be by someone who plans to be around a lot, and they can post top-level summaries and things like that, but I don't see why everyone else can't have one or two posts there, too, for bios for their own character. It seems more practical that way.

[Lotesse]

I agree there with Earniel &Rian; I've been thinking the same thing but was hesitant to say anything since I didn't feel like stepping on anyone's toes.

[Valandil]

Lotesse - yes, the "Cinderalla" thing struck me at one point, and I almost wanted to go back and rename Annawen as "Sindariel"... but then I thought how perilous that could be for Valandil!

CS - this soon after the fall of Numenor, I suppose it wouldn't be uncommon for Dunedain men to live to be 240 or 250. Valandil lived to 260 and his cousins ruling Gondor were even more long-lived.

If you go by the HoME accounts, Elendil was 322 when he died - in hand-to-hand combat with Sauron no less - and Isildur was a young 234 when shanghaied on the old Anduin Trail.

Thanks for the compliments guys - don't feel intimidated though, because I think I'm enjoying everything the rest of you are writing every bit as much as you say you're enjoying mine. I just tend to ramble and get into a lot of detail - especially when initially 'setting the stage' - just taking pains to show how the characters fit into the continuity. And I'll be putting up lots of short posts later - as we go along. I think I'd be taking over too much if I always did too many long posts - I guess I've just introduced several different players in the game initially though - haven't I?? (I figure the rest of us need to out-number the Nazguls at least 2 to 1 - or we're gonna get creamed!)

Yes CS - good analysis of Oreturion... like a secret agent or something. We can basically figure that the guy's job is to be suspicious ("Men in Black" type?). His name actually means something like "Master-mind"

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

Gor, How old is the Chancellor? Estelmo is an old man 185, that's old. I think he will not live beyond 200. And he calls Ilmenzor a friend of his youth?

Gordie, fine new title! I propose new picture for Aiwendis. Where is she by the way? Hope to meet her at Commerce.... So she is after Val also? OH MY!

I believe, at the time of the Last alliance, Lord Ilmenzor was young, about Val's age, that is about 50. That makes the Chancellor about 110 now, 75 years younger thn Estelmo.
So he couldn't be born in Numenor, as Estelmo was. More likely, Valandil , not Ilmenzor was "companion of Estelmo's youth", but his father, the Captain of Minas Ithil. What his name might be? hmm, no idea.

Originally Posted by Valandil

this soon after the fall of Numenor, I suppose it wouldn't be uncommon for Dunedain men to live to be 240 or 250. Valandil lived to 260 and his cousins ruling Gondor were even more long-lived.

Yes, but they were of the royal Line. Estelmo was a simple Dunadan. Elros was given the lifespan three times greater than the other men. Erendis (not of the Royal Line) was supposed to live much less than Aldarion. So, I believe, Estelmo's lifespan should not exceed 200. He must be close to old age at 185.

I like Aiwendis picture, CS, much better than the old ones! Thank you.
Is she after Val? I am afraid it is her job here. But will he like her? Eh, Val?

[Lotesse]

Aiwendis is wearing a necklace that Viniglaen would very much like to get her little paws on!