02-22-2004, 06:10 PM | #581 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
02-22-2004, 06:24 PM | #582 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
It's obvious that there simply IS a truth about how the universe got here; would you agree? IOW, if there are two contradictory theories, ONLY ONE can be actually true; do you agree? For example, here are two options (of many) : (1) the God described in the Bible made things, (2) evolutionary processes made things. Now, both are unprovable by scientific means, and both have a starting point that is unexplained. (And btw, I agree with your definition of scientific truth, and I hope you have noticed that most of the theory of evolution CANNOT be scientifically proven ) So anyway, to make a very long story short, I believe that option 1 is the most likely to be true, based on analysis of what I see around me. And as far as "religious truth" in general, to me, BY FAR the most sane option, and the one that jives with what I see around me daily and what I think and feel inside me, and how I see other people acting and hear them talking, is that Christianity is the true statement of the actual fact of how things are. I mean, things either ARE a fact or AREN'T : one can't MAKE them a fact because one closes their eyes and crosses their fingers and wishes reeeeely hard I think we all need to look around us, and think about things, and think about the ramifications of different ideas, and then choose a "worldview" that we think is the best reflection of the actual truth of the way things are. Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-22-2004 at 06:29 PM. |
|||
02-22-2004, 06:31 PM | #583 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
02-22-2004, 06:35 PM | #584 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
I meant to note earlier that the only aspects of science that have been proven are laws, such as the law of gravity. There are very few laws, for good reason.
You can't prove evolution, nor can you prove that animals and people were created pretty much as you see them today. Both theories are valid and sensible. (Creationists may not like me calling it a theory, but I strongly believe it is a theory.) All this came up in the Creationism thread, which I can't find for some reason.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-22-2004, 06:37 PM | #585 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-22-2004 at 06:38 PM. |
||
02-22-2004, 06:52 PM | #586 | ||
"The Bomb"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: all over the place
Posts: 1,601
|
Quote:
Quote:
Both are true, but they're obviously true in different ways. They're separate then, one being science, and the other being spirit, but still both true. So it is perfectly fine, normal, and not even frowned upon for a Catholic to believe that the Universe was created by a gigantic explosion, but we also believe that God did it. So I think that the most logical thing to believe is that God caused an explosion.
__________________
Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 02-22-2004 at 06:54 PM. |
||
02-22-2004, 07:01 PM | #587 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
This does not diminish the validity and importance of the Bible, but in my opinion, but this does mean that we can no longer take it literally. Words also change their meanings over time. For example, "Virgin" used to mean "young girl" and now it refers to someone who's never had sex. I am multilingual, I'm fluent in French and English. It is very difficult to translate some words, though the two languages are fairly close. One of my best friends speaks Japanese and English, and she says many words cannot be translated properly.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
02-22-2004, 07:19 PM | #588 |
"The Bomb"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: all over the place
Posts: 1,601
|
Yeah, if 'samurai' were translated, it would be 'sword true'.
Some things were lost in translation even from Hebrew to Latin. Joseph and Mary may not have even tried to to get a room at any inn in Bethlehem: the same word used for 'inn' was used for 'upper room', refering to an elevated platform above the animals in a barn. That in particular is irrelevant, but it's the first one I remembered off hand. The good part is, the clergy is aware of this and they make sure everything still makes sense.
__________________
Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
02-22-2004, 11:15 PM | #589 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Prince George BC Canada
Posts: 139
|
One of my biggest things about religion goes beyond any faith's individual beliefs, and focuses on the entire pantheon of all religions.
Take a basic blueprint, you have one omnipresent figure, beyond comprehension. Then you have a network of higher level entities, each with their own individual personality. Below that you have a network of lower level entities, again, each wiht their own individual personality. Every religion has this sort of structure....even pagan religions will all have a *god of gods* so to speak. Even Witchcraft recognizes that above the Goddess and the God there is simply "The One"...beyond our comprehension. The next level would be your pantheon of gods....in christianity this would consist of the archangels, and quite possibly the entity of 'satan' as well. The level below this would be the demi-gods so to speak....in christianity this would simply be regular angels... Look at stories from religion to religion....in Sumeria, pre-babylon you will see the great flood story...and renditions of david and goliath...even the concept of the garden of eden...all this at 4-5000 BC.... In looking into the true source of religion, one has to remain openminded, for it's the close-minded individuals in religious structure that ends up declaring religious war, be it jihad or the crusades...such actions being an outright abomination of the true purpose of religion...
__________________
If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
02-22-2004, 11:16 PM | #590 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
why do i have hair on my big toe? does everything have a purpose... or did he get goofy and throw in a bunch of irrelavent stuff to throw us off? that kinda stuff
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
02-22-2004, 11:18 PM | #591 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
I feel that the true purpose of religion is to organise spiritulality. IOW, the goal of religion is to organise people who share the same spiritual beliefs. Usually, the goal is positive, but its purpose could be organising people for a political war (like the Crusades).
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-22-2004, 11:29 PM | #592 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
you should read this book if you haven't already Drgnslyer
power of myth it's an excellent study of the evolution of religion over written history on the science/religion thing... the main difference is that scientific theories can be tested, and in fact are meant to be religious beliefs cannot be tested, and are intended to taken at face value that is why science has theories and religion has beliefs religious beliefs will always be religious beliefs... scientific theories, on the other hand, have the potential to be proven for a long ime the earth was believed to be flat, observation later lead people to think that it was a globe... but this was still a theory until someone finally circumnavigated the earth... then it became fact until god comes down for a visit... religion will always be a belief (and even then, i'll be looking for the little man behind the black curtain )
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
02-23-2004, 05:54 AM | #593 |
The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
|
I thought the messiness being referred to was like 'Ahh, the cooking's boiling over and the phone's ringing' messiness.
Sure if you want to go out and study these thing then sure science will come up with a rational response and make the guy who hasn't researched look dumb. But the world seems too quantifiable to be random. |
02-23-2004, 12:19 PM | #594 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
i guess it matters which creation myth you buy into... if you go for the "god started the universe and then let things alone" it is easy to see why things are the way they are... and under this belief, evolution could coexist with god if you go by the "god made adam and eve 6000 years ago" or something similar, a lot more things don't make sense... why create stars and planets millions of light years distant?
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
02-23-2004, 05:22 PM | #595 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
*Is still waiting to find out what the problem was about dinosaurs *
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-23-2004, 05:24 PM | #596 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||
02-23-2004, 05:27 PM | #597 | ||
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
|
Quote:
Quote:
Sorry... in quite the goofy mood! If I were to get serious, I'd say, "I don't know."
__________________
My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
||
02-23-2004, 05:27 PM | #598 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Three reasons off the top of my head: First, because they're darn beautiful and are a stunning testimony to the glory of God; second, because we have an explorer's soul within us and there's something lovely about the remoteness of some things; third, because we need to know that not all things are under our control or ever could be. Whatcha think of those, bucko? (ps - you need a custom title! Have you thought of any?)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
02-23-2004, 05:34 PM | #599 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Toe - Ewwww! How much? I would say to give you something to think about when you're trying to avoid something else you should be doing. Or something for your wife to play with. Personally, I think that God has a great sense of humor. Really now, reread some of those illustrations that Jesus gave - we're so used to reading the Bible in a somber voice that we lose the humor! Altho Jesus was mainly serious, because he had the most important task in the world to accomplish - but yet, the humor comes through. God's pulled some good ones on me, and I can almost hear him laugh sometimes! And I can almost hear Him laugh out of sheer joy sometimes when I look at certain things in nature, and I laugh along with Him. I think you're right - He got "goofy" and threw in a bunch of irrelevant stuff to keep us from getting too self-absorbed and self-satisfied - basically, to keep us on our toes, and on the lookout for Him.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
02-23-2004, 05:51 PM | #600 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Quote:
Does anyone have any other creation stories they can share? I'm always up for some fiction. |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[TB?] News Thread | trolls' bane | General Messages | 35 | 06-22-2007 03:33 AM |
Buddy's Thread | Ruinel | General Messages | 57 | 02-11-2004 12:10 AM |
The Entmoot Presidential Debate | Darth Tater | Entmoot Archive | 163 | 12-06-2002 09:44 PM |
The Anti-theist Thread | afro-elf | General Messages | 1123 | 05-09-2002 03:46 PM |
Let Gandalf smite the Abortion thread! | Gilthalion | General Messages | 7 | 08-27-2000 02:52 PM |