The Taming of Jackson

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by mithrand1r
But , I think you are also incorrect to assume that just because you think PJ&co did a great job that PJ&co are above criticism. If people go to see a movie they can (and often do ) critically look at the movie and see where things could have been improved, where things went wrong or where things went well.

I never said the films are beyond criticism. My personal beef is that for the high quality of the production, it is a shame that the continuity people didn't do their jobs. There are too many glitches for a film of this calibur. My criticism here is reserved for the jerseydevils of the world who tell us the films are horrible and Jackson is a hack and expect us to take them seriously. If you want to defend their nonsense, be my guest.

Originally posted by mithrand1r
»The films could have stayed within the 3 hour time limit and still stayed closer to the book (this does not mean a literal page by page book to screen adaptation) without having to add extra material not part of the book and does little to add to the story of LOTR.

I am always amused by posters who in one breath say "I wasn't asking for a literal, page by page book to screen adaptation" and in the next breath say "but Jackson shouldn't have added to the story." The comment that PJ's choices "does little to add to the story" is your opinion. Other Tolkienites would respectfully disagree with your assessment.

Originally posted by mithrand1r
»It would have been nice to keep the characterizations of the characters intact.

Just because the characterizations evidently didn't reflect YOUR interpretations of the story's characters doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way. Most Tolkienites generally feel the characterizations were dead-on.

Originally posted by mithrand1r
»Although not critical for non-book readers, it would have been nice to keep in mind about the geographic location of places in LOTR when making references to them.

What do you mean "it would have been nice?" It was done. Faramir's review of the map during TTT was intentionally done exactly for this reason.

[Sister Golden Hair]

BB, who are these Tolkienites you keep refering to? Are you sure you don't mean Jacksonites?

[Melko Belcha]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Just because the characterizations evidently didn't reflect YOUR interpretations of the story's characters doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way. Most Tolkienites generally feel the characterizations were dead-on.

So are you trying to say that Aragorn's character was dead on? Because he was so far removed from Aragorn in the book that other then the name they are completely different characters. How can you say that the character changes in the films are just because PJ interpretated them different, my interpretation of them is how Tolkien wrote them. Tolkien made Aragorn a character who spent the majority of his live trying to full-fill his destiny, in the films he wants nothing to do with his destiny. In the book Aragorn wants his kingdom, he wants to restore the Dunedain to the kingship, none of that is in the movies. It is not a difference of interpretation, it is flat out changing the characters.

A difference of interpretation would be saying that something dosen't look the way we invisioned it. But when you are told how something is or what a character is like then what is there to interpret?

[Beor]

Well, first of all, to stick with the thread, I'm with jerseydevil, if that's cool with him. I'll take the flank of PJ's orcc army and try and stop any from comi up to support their Lord. Nothing too new, really, aint nothin' wrong with a lynch mob

[Black Breathalizer]

I got news for you, Melko Belcha: You don't hold the patent on "Tolkien Truth."

It really is wrong for me to call people like Melko "Purists" because it only empowers them to feel like they really are the Protectors of Tolkien. Nothing could be further from the truth. The sad fact is that most so-called purists are not very versed in the books to begin with. The other sad fact is that they are unwilling or unable to adapt to another person's perspective when it differs from their iron-clad 'truth.' The REAL truth be known, they wanted Jackson to capture their own unique personal visions for LOTR and that was never going to happen regardless of who wrote or directed the story.

Part of growing up is recognizing that your perspective is simply a perspective and not The Truth. Geez, sometimes I'm so incredibly profound, I sound just like Gandalf.

[Beor]

whoops, there was supposed to be more to that. I dont know what the hell just happened. Anyway, the only really good things about the movies, as I see it, is that their popularity no doubt sent a whole lot of people to the book store to get the books, and learn what J.R.R. Tolkien really said, and thus ..gotta go, sorry

[Melko Belcha]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The sad fact is that most so-called purists are not very versed in the books to begin with.

That is so funny, I needed a good laugh today. From ready your posts all I can say is either you have not studied the books at all or just don't care about the hard work that the author put into it.

In the book (I don't have it around for the quote) Aragorn talks about Minas Tirith being his city, his people. You could even say he was arrogant because he had not claimed the throne yet. In the films we have Aragorn wanting nothing to do with his people or his city.

As Tolkien himself has said, changes to the characters would be a disrespect to the author, PJ showed no respect to the author. PJ might respect LotR, but he does not respect Tolkien.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Part of growing up is recognizing that your perspective is simply a perspective and not The Truth. Geez, sometimes I'm so incredibly profound, I sound just like Gandalf.

like Gandalf? Again I go: yeah, riiiiiight!

Wouldn't it be even better if you'd take your own advise on this?

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The comment that PJ's choices "does little to add to the story" is your opinion. Other Tolkienites would respectfully disagree with your assessment.

And still others would agree. It cuts both ways....

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Melko Belcha
In the book (I don't have it around for the quote) Aragorn talks about Minas Tirith being his city, his people.

I would love to debate you on the character of Aragorn. I don't have the time to get into it right now but I will leave you with this quote your Aragorn imposter made in the film:

Aragorn referring to Minas Tirith and the people of Gondor:
I swear to you I will not let the white city fall nor our people fail!"

[Elf Girl]

I would like to civilly suggest that we keep debates to another thread. I think the only way the thread will stay open is if we can say what we're going to do to Jackson, and BB can say what Jackson is going to do to us, but we don't debate each other's points- we just laugh.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I would like to civilly suggest that we keep debates to another thread. I think the only way the thread will stay open is if we can say what we're going to do to Jackson, and BB can say what Jackson is going to do to us, but we don't debate each other's points- we just laugh.

Agreed.

One final thing BB - that quote from the movie came only while Boromir was dying. Before that Aragorn was a wimp running from his destiny. I'm sure there is the "Jackson screwed up aragorn" thread somewhere here where you can try to refute it.

[thranduil]

I will stand with bb, ip, and whover else. Jackson still has some supporters. Yes some of us are quite critical, and have excellent points. I wish some things were different as well, but look at the overall movies, yes they have flaws, and jackson added some of his own interpretations and scenes. Yet overall I find them appealing and entertaining. So I think Jackson did excellent job. And he sure didn't do it to make a quick buck. It was hardly a quick task. So come and try raiding Jackson, it will not be an easy task.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by thranduil
I will stand with bb, ip, and whover else. Jackson still has some supporters. Yes some of us are quite critical, and have excellent points. I wish some things were different as well, but look at the overall movies, yes they have flaws, and jackson added some of his own interpretations and scenes. Yet overall I find them appealing and entertaining. So I think Jackson did excellent job. And he sure didn't do it to make a quick buck. It was hardly a quick task. So come and try raiding Jackson, it will not be an easy task.

Are you sure you're not BB in disguise? All your posts seem very similar to his - espeically the thread you started concerning Tolkien watching the movies. I wouldn't put it over on him to create his own support team because he's so outnumbered.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
You sure you're not BB in disguise. All your posts seem very similar to his - espeically the thread you started concerning Tolkien watching the movies. I wouldn't put it over on him to create his own support team because he's so outnumbered.

I found this site just a few days ago and it looked like alot of fun debating Tolkein stuff. I have no idea even who BB is except he sticks up for the movies, and obviously jackson. Did BB start a similair thread or something about tolkein watching them? Well anyway I showed my friend Cassius to this site to.