Elf children?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Yes but remember that to outsiders (most non-elves) she was a dark mysterious figure of great power and because the wood elves didnt mingle much with men or other races (in fact there was great mistrust among them - how did Tolkien put it? They are our UNfriends and we will afflict them in all means possible). So its not a far stretch to think of her as some kind of elf witch. We learn differently of course.

The quote you are refering to is from the Silmarillion, not LotRs, and it was a message that was sent to Finrod by the Green Elves concerning Men. I can't remember if Tolkien used the word "witch." I thought in the narrative he refered to Galadriel as a sorceress.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
The quote you are refering to is from the Silmarillion, not LotRs, and it was a message that was sent to Finrod by the Green Elves concerning Men. I can't remember if Tolkien used the word "witch." I thought in the narrative he refered to Galadriel as a sorceress.

Im guessing youve read the books a few times. But the feeling was the same for Galadriel's folk I think. They didnt trust others too much. I just love the terminology in that quote though. The language in the silmarillion in places is just too delicious to deal with.

Well for many people sorceress and witch are one in the same.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Im guessing youve read the books a few times. But the feeling was the same for Galadriel's folk I think. They didnt trust others too much. I just love the terminology in that quote though. The language in the silmarillion in places is just too delicious to deal with.

Well for many people sorceress and witch are one in the same.

Sorceress sounds less ugly.

[Elf Girl]

SGH is right, "witch" is much more negative then "sorceress".

[Falagar]

A witch is (often) a lady clad in black with a pointy hat and a broom. A sorceress on the other hand

[Insidious Rex]

tsk tsk. all this witch bashing. i know some pagans who would take great offense

[Wayfarer]

Sauron was a Necromancer. The First Nazgul was a Witch. Galadriel was a sorceress.

Synonyms, people. Synonyms.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Galadriel was a sorceress.

Synonyms, people. Synonyms.

I thought I said that.

[Nurvingiel]

Galadriel is Queen of the Golden Wood!

On-line dictionary

Define the type of magic practiced.

sorcery
Main Entry: sor·cery
Pronunciation: -rE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sorcerie, from Middle French, from sorcier sorcerer, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin sortiarius, from Latin sort-, sors chance, lot -- more at SERIES
Date: 14th century
1 : the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining : NECROMANCY
2 : MAGIC 2a

necromancy
Main Entry: nec·ro·man·cy
Pronunciation: 'ne-kr&-"man(t)-sE
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of Middle English nigromancie, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin nigromantia, by folk etymology from Late Latin necromantia, from Late Greek nekromanteia, from Greek nekr- + -manteia -mancy
Date: 1522
1 : conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events

magic
Main Entry: 1mag·ic
Pronunciation: 'ma-jik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English magique, from Middle French, from Latin magice, from Greek magikE, feminine of magikos Magian, magical, from magos magus, sorcerer, of Iranian origin; akin to Old Persian magus sorcerer
Date: 14th century
1 a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces b : magic rites or incantations
2 a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source b : something that seems to cast a spell : ENCHANTMENT
3 : the art of producing illusions by sleight of hand

enchantment
Main Entry: en·chant·ment
Pronunciation: in-'chant-m&nt, en-
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
1 a : the act or art of enchanting b : the quality or state of being enchanted
2 : something that enchants

witch
Main Entry: 1witch
Pronunciation: 'wich
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wicche, from Old English wicca, masculine, wizard & wicce, feminine, witch; akin to Middle High German wicken to bewitch, Old English wigle divination, and perhaps to Old High German wIh holy -- more at VICTIM
Date: before 12th century
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar : SORCERESS -- compare WARLOCK
2 : an ugly old woman : HAG
3 : a charming or alluring girl or woman
4 : a practitioner of Wicca
5 : WITCH OF AGNESI
- witch·like /'wich-"lIk/ adjective
- witchy /'wi-chE/ adjective


The point is, none of these things accurately describe Galadriel.

[Silje]

And I don't see the point of all this
Arguing about the diffrences of sorceress and witch *shakes her head*

[Sister Golden Hair]

What the point is, is that if Galadriel was refered to as a "witch" or "sorceress" it was all under a misconception of reputation.

Silje is also right. It doesn't have much to do with the topic of Elf children.

[Nurvingiel]

True, we were off topic. But our discussion about Galadriel can be loosly related to the topic of Elf children in that at one time, she was a child.

Hard to picture Galadriel as a little kid eh?

Imagine her as a newborn, at age 10, at age 100...

[Elf Girl]

I can just picture Galadriel running around Valinor with her hair in pigtails. "Mommy! Mommy! I found a pretty ruby on the beach!"

[Sister Golden Hair]

I would love to know what Finrod was like as a little Elf.

[Nurvingiel]

Aaaawww! Or baby Legolas...

Were Elf children ever mentioned in LOTR or The Hobbit?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Aaaawww! Or baby Legolas...

Were Elf children ever mentioned in LOTR or The Hobbit?

I don't recall any instances in any of the books where there were Elf children. I think the closest would be the Silmarillion, where during the exile, Tolkien refers to the Noldrin Exiles as being young. I picture Finrod, Galadriel, Fingon, Turgon, etc. at that time as being like to older teenagers, or very young adults. I have always been under the impression though that Idril was a baby at the time they crossed the Grinding Ice

[Artanis]

In the Sil, there is the children of Dior and Nimloth, Elured, Elurin and Elwing. When their parents were slain, Elured and Elurin were left to starve in the forest. I suppose they were small children or else they would be able to care for themselves.

There is also Earendil, who is said to be 7 years old when Gondolin fell, and Elros and Elrond who were captured by Maglor and Maedhros.

But of course these were all half-Elven.

[Silje]

Yea! But that raises another question! What about half-elves? Did they grow up as men or as elves? They were able to choose but that wasn't before they were fully grown I believe! Arwen was elf before she chose but she had elven mother and half-elven fater so she was 3/4 elf!! This just get more and more confusing

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Silje
Yea! But that raises another question! What about half-elves? Did they grow up as men or as elves? They were able to choose but that wasn't before they were fully grown I believe! Arwen was elf before she chose but she had elven mother and half-elven fater so she was 3/4 elf!! This just get more and more confusing

I believe that Elrond and Elros were the first of the Peredhil. At the end of the First Age, they were given the choice of which race they wanted to belong to. At the end of the Third Age, Elrond's children were also given the choice which was to be made at the time Elrond was to go into the west. Arwen gave her place to Frodo on the ship, and chose to remain and marry Aragorn who was mortal, making her mortal now. I can't be sure, but I believe that Elrond's sons also chose mortality.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I believe that Elrond and Elros were the first of the Peredhil. At the end of the First Age, they were given the choice of which race they wanted to belong to. At the end of the Third Age, Elrond's children were also given the choice which was to be made at the time Elrond was to go into the west. Arwen gave her place to Frodo on the ship, and chose to remain and marry Aragorn who was mortal, making her mortal now. I can't be sure, but I believe that Elrond's son also chose mortality.

excuse my dumb question(s) but Galadriel was Arwen's grandmother correct? Since her mother was Galadriel's daugther? And therefore kin (by marriage) to Aragorn right? And Arwen was technically the niece of Aragorns ancestor right? ok ive confused myself again...