I'm disgusted - Page 3

Gerbil · 12-30-2002, 06:19 AM

Quote:

I hate to enlighten you people, but being an Elf is more an internal thing. They're virtues are not limited to being fair to look at. Haldir was wise and good and that's more important.

Actually though, most important is that he's now brown bread (rhyming slang in case you couldn't guess

).

Elenessiel · 12-31-2002, 01:44 AM

Nurvingiel, thank you for that clarification of your earlier remark about the pointlessness of Haldir's death. You make some valid points, and I certainly agree that PJ could have articulated the Elves' reasons for showing up a little (lot) better. However, what he did not specifically articulate was hinted at very nicely in what my sister* refers to as the "telepathic communication" scene. (You know, Elrond is moping around Rivendell debating what his role in the coming conflict should be, and he and Galadriel do a couple voiceovers.) Elrond presents his (vague) reasons for not wanting to get involved in what is hopefully not intended to be a real convincing argument. He has obviously changed his mind, and the arrival of the elves illuminates far more about Elrond than about Haldir or anyone that actually shows up. Not everything I was hoping for, but certainly better than nothing.

*Said sister is wonderful and beautiful and thinks she's an elf. She is an elf in fact. She's also peering over my shoulder at the moment. She insists that I give her credit for the astoundingly clever comment I posted on the "What they were really thinking" thread.
All right Lucy, are you happy now?
She is.

Lanelf · 12-31-2002, 02:04 AM

I didn't belive PJ did that! When Haldir carked it, I started saying "PJ must DIE!" right there in the cinema. What was the point of having one of my FAVOURITE elves die at Helms Deep? And like that? Bleep, Boromir got a better death scene!
Lanelf.

Gerbil · 12-31-2002, 08:29 AM

Elrond / Galadriel's 'help' was pretty dam stingy if you ask me.
Honouring the old alliance does not mean sending a couple of hundred soldiers to fight for all of middle earth.

If that's their idea of help, they can shove it, the tight-fisted old gits.

Elf Girl · 12-31-2002, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerbil
Elrond / Galadriel's 'help' was pretty dam stingy if you ask me.
Honouring the old alliance does not mean sending a couple of hundred soldiers to fight for all of middle earth.

There aren't that many ELves left, probably that was all they could spare.

middleEarthStar · 12-31-2002, 02:26 PM

but why change the history??
Haldir dies in the book too.

eowyngirl14 · 12-31-2002, 03:10 PM

When does Haldir die in the books? I don't remeber that part...

Gerbil · 12-31-2002, 04:06 PM

It happens at Helm's Deep of course!

I'm waiting for the book versions of the film to come out - I can hardly wait to shout and scream and rant!

Think I'll go practice now and scare the neighbours...

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-01-2003, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by middleEarthStar
but why change the history??
Haldir dies in the book too.

Haldir does not die in the book.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-05-2003, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerbil
Elrond / Galadriel's 'help' was pretty dam stingy if you ask me.
Honouring the old alliance does not mean sending a couple of hundred soldiers to fight for all of middle earth.

If that's their idea of help, they can shove it, the tight-fisted old gits.

Well, PJ isn't quite as good a story teller as Tolkien. Maybe he (or his writers) just accidentally missed that detail when he was making up that part of the plot.

I saw TTT again, and I enjoyed it much more the second time, probably because I was mentally prepared for massive book deviations.

This time in the scene where Haldir dies, I was deeply moved. I still think the whole thing was contrived, random, and pointless - see previous clarifications - but now my harsh opinion is softened a tiny bit. I rage that Haldir died like that, but for a brief moment, I was very touched, and could ignore all the stupid aspects of that scene.

The moving part, for me, is where Haldir is on his knees, expressions of shock and confusion on his face. It seems that he is completely alone in the battle. This part lasts for roughly two seconds. Then Aragorn runs up and it loses its poignancy.

Thanks for the nice things you said Elenessiel!

Millane · 01-05-2003, 09:38 AM

hhahahahha i love all this anti haldir sentiment

Quote:

Boromir got a better death scene!

THATS BECAUSE BOROMIR WAS BETTER!!!!!

Quote:

They're virtues are not limited to being fair to look at.

ahhh but it is one virtue and haldir must have been elsewhere while Illuvatar was making the elves pretty... he does have a fat face, i think SGH somes him up pretty well fat ugly elf hehehehe.
all in all he wasnt that big of a carachter to justify a death scene...
i think they should have given Movie Gil-galad a death scene as he was in it about as much as Haldir andhe was a 1000000x better elf...

legolasluvr2931 · 01-05-2003, 04:22 PM

I with u Nilore! It was so sad. I cried! I didn't think that i would but i did.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-05-2003, 07:24 PM

I'm not anti-Haldir, I just thought PJ messed up his character and gave him a dumb death scene. None of this stupidity is Haldir's fault, and he isn't ugly by a long shot. I think he's good-looking.

eowyngirl14 · 01-05-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I'm not anti-Haldir, I just thought PJ messed up his character and gave him a dumb death scene. None of this stupidity is Haldir's fault, and he isn't ugly by a long shot. I think he's good-looking.

I likes his death scene! At first I had no idea what was going on, 'He can't die! He just can't' I kept telling myself!

Millane · 01-06-2003, 01:00 AM

i cannot understand this at all how could you cry for an elf that was in it for that short a time and had no big role to play and in all the scenes you saw him he was being a wanker when you first see him he insults a dwarf already with hostile feelings towards elves with a few axes ready to kill in an instant, well he must have missed the elves intelligence aswell as there looks, next scene Aragorn has to beg him to be allowed through Lothlorien, at Helms deep when he turns up aragorn hugs him and he stands there with his get-away-from-me-filthy-mortal look on... honestly i think an arrow or 2 would have been fitting..

Starr Polish · 01-06-2003, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
I nkow that the book and movie are seperate things, but if they wanted them to be totally seperate they wouldn't have to add
Based on the novel by J.R.R. Tolkien
at the end.

It's called copywrite issues.

Huan · 01-06-2003, 03:44 AM

In the book or not, I love the elves at Helm's deep. First, they create a brilliant contrast with the other soldiers in the film. Think about it: those Eastern/Southern/whatever soldiers and the orcs out of Isengard make a truly oppressive noise marching. You really want to cover your ears or leave for the bathroom or something. Then these elven troops arrive, and the only sound they make is a slight russling noise. Beautiful. And Haldir himself: taken from the book as it was, I enjoyed his haughty introduction to Gimli: "A dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark." Then you add the extra screen time from the Extended DVD, and you have a character. I was astounded by his death scene: that the filmmakers would dare kill someone just because Tolkien didn't say otherwise. But sold as I already was by those beautifully noiseless elven archers, I so bought into it. The only objection I might raise is that to my mind, I'm not sure elves should sweat as much as Haldir was at his time of demise.

Lady of Rohan · 01-06-2003, 09:24 AM

I thought that it was so sad when Haldir died.

***azalea*** · 01-06-2003, 01:41 PM

Millane, Haldir wasn't thinking "get away you filthy mortal," PJ had established the way elves give each other a warm greeting -- they do not hug, but extend the right arm and grasp the shoulder of the other elf, which Aragorn knew and had done w/ Legolas earlier after the fake death thing. But Aragorn was so moved by their coming that he gave the "warm man greeting" too. Haldir didn't know about this, so he just reacts thinking "what is he doing" but then seems to understand and hug him back a little. I don't remember if elves hug in the books, but this is how PJ has done it, so that's why Haldir seems that way when Aragorn hugs him.

eowyngirl14 · 01-06-2003, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
It's called copywrite issues.

I was kinda joking abuot that...

12-31-2002, 02:04 AM	#43
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	I didn't belive PJ did that! When Haldir carked it, I started saying "PJ must DIE!" right there in the cinema. What was the point of having one of my FAVOURITE elves die at Helms Deep? And like that? Bleep, Boromir got a better death scene! Lanelf. __________________ Hey, I'm back! resounding silence You didn't even notice I was gone, did you? Well, I'm back now anyway. Artemis Fowl must find Mulch Diggums! You'll never shut down the real Napster

12-31-2002, 08:29 AM	#44
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	Elrond / Galadriel's 'help' was pretty dam stingy if you ask me. Honouring the old alliance does not mean sending a couple of hundred soldiers to fight for all of middle earth. If that's their idea of help, they can shove it, the tight-fisted old gits. __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

12-31-2002, 02:26 PM	#46
middleEarthStar Sapling Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: sweden Posts: 13	yeah....but but why change the history?? Haldir dies in the book too. __________________ Let it be yore light at dark places when all other light goes out

12-31-2002, 03:10 PM	#47
eowyngirl14 i don't know what i am talking about either, so don't ask Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,353	When does Haldir die in the books? I don't remeber that part... __________________ 'The coming of dawn is ever the hope to the heart of men' -Aragorn 'Then I will die as one of them' -Aragorn TTT movie “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” - Benjamin Franklin arms are made for hugging avatar from the avatar shop! made by Eowyn, Lady of Rohan

12-31-2002, 04:06 PM	#48
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	It happens at Helm's Deep of course! I'm waiting for the book versions of the film to come out - I can hardly wait to shout and scream and rant! Think I'll go practice now and scare the neighbours... __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

12-31-2002, 01:44 AM	#42
Elenessiel Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Not Nebraska Posts: 17	Nurvingiel, thank you for that clarification of your earlier remark about the pointlessness of Haldir's death. You make some valid points, and I certainly agree that PJ could have articulated the Elves' reasons for showing up a little (lot) better. However, what he did not specifically articulate was hinted at very nicely in what my sister* refers to as the "telepathic communication" scene. (You know, Elrond is moping around Rivendell debating what his role in the coming conflict should be, and he and Galadriel do a couple voiceovers.) Elrond presents his (vague) reasons for not wanting to get involved in what is hopefully not intended to be a real convincing argument. He has obviously changed his mind, and the arrival of the elves illuminates far more about Elrond than about Haldir or anyone that actually shows up. Not everything I was hoping for, but certainly better than nothing. *Said sister is wonderful and beautiful and thinks she's an elf. She is an elf in fact. She's also peering over my shoulder at the moment. She insists that I give her credit for the astoundingly clever comment I posted on the "What they were really thinking" thread. All right Lucy, are you happy now? She is.

01-05-2003, 04:22 PM	#52
legolasluvr2931 Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 30	I with u Nilore! It was so sad. I cried! I didn't think that i would but i did.

01-06-2003, 01:00 AM	#55
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	i cannot understand this at all how could you cry for an elf that was in it for that short a time and had no big role to play and in all the scenes you saw him he was being a wanker when you first see him he insults a dwarf already with hostile feelings towards elves with a few axes ready to kill in an instant, well he must have missed the elves intelligence aswell as there looks, next scene Aragorn has to beg him to be allowed through Lothlorien, at Helms deep when he turns up aragorn hugs him and he stands there with his get-away-from-me-filthy-mortal look on... honestly i think an arrow or 2 would have been fitting.. __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free,

01-06-2003, 03:44 AM	#57
Huan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Oxford, MS Posts: 274	In the book or not, I love the elves at Helm's deep. First, they create a brilliant contrast with the other soldiers in the film. Think about it: those Eastern/Southern/whatever soldiers and the orcs out of Isengard make a truly oppressive noise marching. You really want to cover your ears or leave for the bathroom or something. Then these elven troops arrive, and the only sound they make is a slight russling noise. Beautiful. And Haldir himself: taken from the book as it was, I enjoyed his haughty introduction to Gimli: "A dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark." Then you add the extra screen time from the Extended DVD, and you have a character. I was astounded by his death scene: that the filmmakers would dare kill someone just because Tolkien didn't say otherwise. But sold as I already was by those beautifully noiseless elven archers, I so bought into it. The only objection I might raise is that to my mind, I'm not sure elves should sweat as much as Haldir was at his time of demise.

01-06-2003, 09:24 AM	#58
Lady of Rohan Doughy Elf Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,006	I thought that it was so sad when Haldir died.

01-06-2003, 01:41 PM	#59
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Millane, Haldir wasn't thinking "get away you filthy mortal," PJ had established the way elves give each other a warm greeting -- they do not hug, but extend the right arm and grasp the shoulder of the other elf, which Aragorn knew and had done w/ Legolas earlier after the fake death thing. But Aragorn was so moved by their coming that he gave the "warm man greeting" too. Haldir didn't know about this, so he just reacts thinking "what is he doing" but then seems to understand and hug him back a little. I don't remember if elves hug in the books, but this is how PJ has done it, so that's why Haldir seems that way when Aragorn hugs him.

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